Is Crackling Jade Lightning good yet?

By this logic “rule of law” makes Holy Paladins ranged healers rofl. Ranged effects don’t target us for a reason, because we are melee healers. Again being in melee even if you just take Spear Hand for the interrupt is immensely useful.

So it’s a lazyness thing? Not wanting to move things out of melee? Why not just say that?

Moving isnt such an issue with things like re mist, the talented 10 sec instant vivify, Tea+essence font, expel harm, etc, Yulon can still be used on the move. Quick roll in and out if you need to move something out and you are back to punching to regain mana and contribute more dps than CJL. Relocating short-med distances quickly is something we excel at also btw.

if you dont take “some” of the melee abilities you are kinda ignoring a part of the classes toollkit, bad trade off.

I imagine casting CJL in PVP is begging to be kicked/interrupted, or gives the enemy a direct line right towards the healer so they can train you faster lol.

By this logic “rule of law” makes Holy Paladins ranged healers rofl. Ranged effects don’t target us for a reason, because we are melee healers. Again being in melee even if you just take Spear Hand for the interrupt is immensely useful.

holy paladins are ranged healers if they dont take the melee talents, because their spells have a 40 yard range. im not sure why this is so hard to understand. just cause talents are popular doesnt make them mandatory

So it’s a lazyness thing? Not wanting to move things out of melee? Why not just say that?
Moving isnt such an issue with things like re mist, the talented 10 sec instant vivify, Tea+essence font, expel harm, etc, Yulon can still be used on the move. Quick roll in and out if you need to move something out and you are back to punching to regain mana and contribute more dps than CJL. Relocating short-med distances quickly is something we excel at also btw.

as i said, it’s a throughput thing, because moving interrupts our casting. if i need a vivify but i have to move and use a ReM, that’s a throughput loss. If you take the instant vivify talent you have more mobility to justify melee, but it’s not a required talent; it’s not even a throughput gain. mobility you cant save for when you need it is hardly mobility worth relying on. all the highly mobile spells you mentioned are a part of our core healing and may not be available for on the move casting. if you would cast a different spell than normal because of movement, you are losing throughput

if you dont take “some” of the melee abilities you are kinda ignoring a part of the classes toollkit, bad trade off.

for single target dps i have cjl and touch of death, for aoe i have sck, i take spear hand and improved paralysis. i really dont want to spend talents on dps when three major defensive cds are available in that tree, as well as prerequisites for our insane raid healing throughput and damage reduction auras. im sorry my build doesnt show up in your prepatch guide to mistweaving that you strap around your waist but the assumptions your making about what’s required in a build are false

I imagine casting CJL in PVP is begging to be kicked/interrupted, or gives the enemy a direct line right towards the healer so they can train you faster lol.

it’s not hard to set up a directed knockback against melee to drop them off a ledge. also the same benefits of any channeled spell: you cant los the damage until the channel finishes. it has helped secure kills in arena in the past, sorry if you never tried it. also that block you responded to was simply saying how we have always had just as much range capability as any other healer

CJL is a utility spell, not a DPS spell. Though it does some circumstantial tickle damage, that’s not really what it’s for. You can use CJL to:

  • Add Mystic Touch to a target from range
  • Pull mobs
  • Knock an enemy
  • Zap a Rogue/Druid thats running away to keep them in combat
  • Land a kill on a (really) low HP target that’s running away

CJL will never be an actual, reliable DPS spell.

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You clearly dont understand how their mastery works. Also light of dawn has a 15 yard range btw. No one is talking about what is “popular” here either, but that is not the debate here though. MW and Holy Paly have always been “melee” healers. Ignore that fact if you want but it is stated literally everywhere.

Instant Vivify is almost always up if I need to move, also the 10s timer keeps ticking after it is up, so you can get 2 instant vivifies back to back in some cases. It’s a talent for burst/movement, not throughput, why complain about not having more mobility if you dont take the talents that help with that. Mobility isn’t an issue on monk at all. Again quick roll in and out and you are fine if things are on CD, assuming you were ren misting properly a quick SooMist+vivify after the roll can be executed pretty quickly too, or plan to pop Revival/Yu’Lon on scripted movement phases.

So the bare minimum and a 3 minute cooldown that only works at the end of a fight, cool.
Yeah Spinning Jade Kick is all we have for aoe unfortunately, but we can also Chi Burst on your way in to melee and then start kicking, when I remember I try to do that.

I assure you my build is/will be quite different from the meta/pre patch guide/streamer/fistweaver builds rofl. Most builds are telling people to go ley line and go full fistweaving. Seeing as I never liked fistweaving personally I am doing my own thing, and that is fine that also isnt the issue here.

Because you think I am going for a meta thing, or are using that as a straw man argument to detract from the fact we are melee healers, I’ll post my general build below too. Some talents will obviously be swapped for raids or if they get nerfed/dont feel good when DF hits, but I assure if it is nothing like the guides. I didnt see myself needing all 3 defensive cooldowns because Ive done M+ in the past and rotating fort brew and dampen usually got me by, but if I need the third one I can grab it. Ill most likely drop the 4% movement aura if it doesnt feel impactful or stack with other buffs. I took Eye of the Tigre because it makes my Tigre Palm heal me somewhat, so now it heals and regens mana.

Abilities/talents like RSK, TOTM, SotC are very useful compared to…just cjl… combined with being in melee to properly interrupt and regen mana is VERY helpful for long term fights ( raids ). It lets me pump, then regen mana on slower phases, over and over. I imagine you probably miss a lot of interrupts if you are not even in melee, in which case why even take spear hand? For melee dps all I do is passively TPx3, and BoK for mana regen, rsk when I have time. So I dont qualify as a fistweaver even and have not taken any of the talents associated with it. The elitists or top tier players would probably mock me the same as you, but I know itll work for heroic aotc and m+ loot Ilvl caps, and that is all I care about.

Despite you stating there are “insane” talents most of the throughput talents are in the bottom left tier and early tier for the class tree, most of the middle being utility and defensives, or dmg, the dps and tank statues both mostly underperforming last I heard. I dont think I picked up any dmg talents in there at all - because like you said there are great auras and buffs we can bring.

Im curious to see which talents you picked if you dont mind sharing.

The fun part of the new talent trees is there are a bunch of builds that can be made for most healers. With mine I was going for how MW played/felt in legion. The only additional damage I have added is RSK, BOK 3 stack talent, and BoK mana regen talents. So deff not a “meta/popular” build in any way, not a fistweaving build and plays more like a bursty soo mist build with sustained regen and better mana savings, and obviously it wont be top tier, but it’s fun as heck and versatile with just a few dual talent swaps. I dont see any issues with our mobile healing at all, or being in melee, or getting around quickly.

The knockback was kinda random/unreliable from what I remember, but I didnt play in SL so if it changed cool. I just imagine it leaves you wide open to an interrupt is all.

I’ve tried it, and so have many monk, eventually you just start paying the class properly in melee or you just gimp yourself trying to cjl the entire fight. At the end of the day you do you, im not knocking that at all. Im just saying it’s a literal fact monk are melee healers and you can perform better or react faster, by being in melee.

It’s not so scary as it might seem at first, try it out!

You clearly dont understand how their mastery works. Also light of dawn has a 15 yard range btw. No one is talking about what is “popular” here either, but that is not the debate here though. MW and Holy Paly have always been “melee” healers. Ignore that fact if you want but it is stated literally everywhere.

hpal mastery is the shorter distance from yourself or your beacon target, so being in the range stack is wise to ensure all targets you might need to heal are affected strongly by mastery without having to walk over to them. with the volatility of melee stack positioning, it’s probably better to be behind melee to hit them with light of dawn, rather than IN melee blasting just the tanks with it. i dont play hpal enough anymore to tell but thats what my gut says about cone healing

hpal has not always been a melee healer. early on, the only reason to melee was for slow mana recovery, but it was too dangerous to use extensively, and long cast times meant you probably needed to be precasting instead. in bc and wrath, you never go to melee since the mana problem just went away from the addition of shadow priest mana battery, divine plea mana cooldowns, and just tons of int for crit based mana regen while casting. at this point, “healer dps” still did not really exist since dps still cost mana rather than recovered it, and mana still kind of mattered. i didnt raid in cata, and switched to mistweaver in pandaria, where we recover mana based on channeling mana tea instead of melee attacks. jab-jab-uplift was a strong way to play efficiently but it wasnt the only choice. by siege of orgrimmar this was removed from the kit.

to restate my last point: generating healing resources by using melee attacks was removed from the game in mists. nowadays hpal and monk can do it all day long, but there was a deliberate effort by blizz devs to remove this playstyle. healers didnt belong in melee for extended periods of time.

It’s a talent for burst/movement, not throughput

thats what im saying. you can fast vivify quickly with soothing. not instant, but still pretty fast, and can easily transition into more healing if the one vivify isnt enough to do the job. you can just as easily waste your instant vivify while soothing a target than use it on the move. even if they add 15% throughput on the cast consuming the proc, it’s a talent better spent elsewhere for me

3 minute cooldown that only works at the end of a fight

adds exist on most fights. currently with fated raids, touch of death pretty much always has a usable target. my favorite is to kill one of the first chaos motes that come out. it respawns as two motes instantly, so cleave is that much more efficient for the entire raid. i see it as pushing the raid forward one “cleave kill wave” by skipping the first one, resulting in tons more stacks of the buff. so, you can usually get more than one use out of it. im not suggesting our baseline dps is impressive, but i find it acceptable so i dont want to put points into it.

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i like your build, i think 3x auras is awesome, but i think 3 points for calming coalescence and prereqs might be overkill since cocoon + free hots aught to do the job, but you can do things with that which i cant, so maybe its worth. all im saying is, you cant call us a melee only class after spending 6 talent points on abilities that require melee. you’re building into it, so of course it becomes true.
when you look at our new dragonflight baseline, we go to melee for aoe dps, aoe stun, touch of death. but nothing about that interacts with our healing unless we talent for it. calling us a melee healer at that point is surely wrong: we are a regular healer with some melee dps abilities. to reiterate: without talents, we have limited dps/utiltiy reason to enter melee, and zero healing reason to enter melee.
i wouldnt say i “miss” interrupts since i dont go for all of them. i build for raid, and i have spear hand in case i see dps missing them, then i can help. i consider my interrupt to be “the last interrupt the raid has” so that when there is no one else, there is me. i dont get tons of them, but every interrupt i get is one that wouldn’t be covered by anyone else. at that point, it’s a raid cooldown, since it negates a punishment from missed interrupt.
i think our utility and defensives ARE insane. transcend + tiger lust + momentum or celerity is just over the top mobility. our defensives are only outclassed by channeled defenses or immunities. i intend to always be in the soaks, and put all of them to their fullest use. with our passive 16% increased healing taken and multitude of powerful defenses, and not to mention always being in range of a mistweaver for healing, we are the perfect spec for the job

this is my baseline for mistweaver in DF. of course like you, there is wiggle room for small adjustments but for the most part i have everything i need excepting keystones in the mistweaver tree. clouded focus can swap in for jade bond as needed. i feel cocoon can do its job with baseline absorb + hots. only one i feel missing is overflowing mists but that isnt 100% reliable throughput so it’s waiting just in case. but i have all the mobility, and almost every defensive excepting elusive mists which i pass since i dont want restrictions on abilities to use for a mere 6% damage reduction

the idea with my build is that raids are complicated beasts, and using a mistweaver’s extreme mobility at range to do fight mechanics is vastly more valuable to me than contributing half a tank worth of dps. every time a raid wipes because of a missed range soak, but theres a mistweaver in melee? what a waste. too busy pumping to play the game i guess. not a personal attack since having talked to you some and looked at your spec, i bet you would leave melee to do this, but i see our mobility and survivability as such an extreme advantage in a progression raid environment, im not willing to give it up for single target dps (unless we wipe to enrage with everyone alive the whole fight)

pvp knockback

the knockback portion of cjl triggers when receiving a melee attack from your target, with a hidden internal cooldown. kinda weird but fun to use once you knew how it worked. and yea its an easy interrupt sadly

you just gimp yourself trying to cjl the entire fight… it’s a literal fact monk are melee healers and you can perform better or react faster, by being in melee .

i definitely dont cjl the entire fight, only when theres no healing or mechanics to do, or of something absolutely needs every bit of damage and i didnt talent for melee abilities. if i expect to need to contribute single target dps, i definitely do talent melee abilities. perform better in melee? perhaps, depending on how you define “better performance”. if that means max out dps+hps, perhaps you’re right, with constant high efficiency smart healing and mana regen, and added dps. if it means “make enough allies survive in order to kill the boss”, i think you’re wrong. even considering our melee utility abilities like leg sweep and spear hand, if they’re needed we have no issue entering melee in time to use them, so confining ourselves to melee is just silly. also have to disagree that melee helps reaction time since it limits our vision and requires constant use of global cooldowns. at range, you can see allies making mistakes before the damage hits and have a cocoon on them (or yu’lon prepped and enveloping precasted) ahead of time to save a death (or a wipe). that’s just not happening in melee since allies’ positions are often not even rendered on your screen.

before someone says “just kick people who make mistakes”, i say no. if your healer playstyle is unable to accommodate allies making mistakes, you are probably just trying to score the biggest parse, rather than someone who enjoys supporting allies (and friends) in a co-op video game. with this philosophy, rescuing one extra dps from death is worth way more than contributing your own dps.

the only time i use this is when i’m the only one there to debuff the boss. i spark his butt one time then heal away.