I’m 384 ilvl, do about 32k overall dmg at the end of typical highish keys. I’ve always just played BM when I DPS, I like having 2 pets and the ability to move a lot. I’m sure it’s more than fine enough to do KSM on (like every spec) but I have been feeling like, while my gear is still low, that I’m just getting obliterated on meters by friends–where in the past I’ve always done good-really good damage.
I’m not super competitive, but I also don’t want to get carried. Is MM just the obvious choice for M+ right now? My secondary stats would work for either spec atm.
Nothing is stopping you from trying MM. If you do more damage and enjoy it, play MM. If it doesn’t work out, stick to BM.
Wasn’t at all what I was asking.
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Alright,
MM is objectively better in M+. It has a better damage profile than BM.
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Thank you. Came to the forums to see if I was doing my rotation wrong–and saw a bunch of BM agony threads, just needed to see if people were coping or if the class was just not in a great spot atm. I don’t keep up on tier lists, etc. so had no idea what is or isn’t good atm.
BM, especially with tier set and bow, is the ST spec. MM is the cleave spec. Since M+ is mostly trash and many bosses have some cleave components, MM pulls ahead.
Problem with BM in keys is AoE damage. You literally put in twice the effort to get half the results that MM would give you. High keys are all about AoE damage, it simply amazes me that Blizzard doesn’t get this simple fact. Vast majority of time in a M+ is spent killing trash.
BM has two maintenance buffs to do AoE, Barbed Shot at 3 stacks and Multishot to give you a 6 second beast cleave window to AoE before having to Multishot again while also maintaining your 3 stack!
You simply aren’t going to go pack to pack and have ability to maintain a 3 stack of BS.
MM is Multishot, followed by a RF or AS, repeat. MS puts up Trick Shots, which is consumed in AoE (3 or more targets) and causes AS or RF to hit 5 targets.
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Bm is worse than mm in m+ because aoe pulls is so important. That being said bm is doable up until the highest levels when pushing every second becomes crucial. Got ksm this last week and never went mm. Only fight ive done mm in raid is council because its so much easier to do good damage as mm. But im a proponent of play what meshes with you better and you’ll find more success than forcing something you hate/cannot wrap your head around.
That sounds quite low for your iLvL. I’d look into your stats, rotation, etc because that doesn’t sound right for overall dps through a M+ unless you’re stuck in combat and the meters keep counting time.
To answer your ? MM is the spec with the best AOE for Hunter and preferred for M+.
Here is my opinion on BM right now.
In raids, BM is good, but limited. You can swap between single target and AoE specs as needed, so our strength on single target bosses is great and lack of AoE on trash isn’t important.
In M+, BM suffers from an inability to swap specs. We need a well rounded spec for both trash and bosses, so taking AoE talents greatly diminishes our strength on bosses. If we could freely swap talents in the middle of a key, it wouldn’t be such an issue. Pair that with lack of self-sustain and long cooldown defensives and BM becomes a hindrance in most high keys. We can still do high keys, but will require other group members to pick up some of the slack.
The fact that our poor AoE costs five talent points, while other classes/specs can do better AoE with a single talent point, just boggles my mind. But then again, BM has the least number of talent nodes and the highest number of 2 and 3 point talents, so it’s clear the designer just ran out of ideas(or time).
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I will regularly out dmg 390+ BM on my 370ilvl MM. Easily. Im not sure if MM is overtuned or BM/SV are horribly undertuned. Possible that blizz dosnt want the easiest spec in the game to be the best. Ive heard that argument before.
Yeah that’s really my main issue. I’m fine with not topping meters but I should be doing like 35-40 by now I think. My trinkets are garbage and no tier, that’s some of it, but feels like I’m not doing something right.
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TBF every class is easy, it’s all just priority-based. At best I would say some specs are more clunky than others and some just feel super smooth. Like I usually main a priest but found their rotation clunky, not hard, despite having a priority list 9000 levels deep.
I think maybe due to being the only ranged that can ranged without hard casting has an effect but then look at melee. I think for our ST we are good but not top, so we should be about the same in AOE if one niche defines the other and that’s not the case with some classes having strong ST and AOE that you can argue require less management than ours.
The only tier that would impact is 4pc and I was pulling more with no raid gear in the mid 380s.
Post on your toon so we can see spec, gear, chants, etc. Rank 2 Scopes are only a couple hundo for your weapon and I haven’t used rank 3 rockets yet since I’m cleaning my stack of 2s first so most of my experience is with less than optimal gear. Took me a while to level all that stuff in engi but you can just buy on the cheap from AH.
Frenzy being up in AOE is not as important as Cleave uptime. Frenzy will probably drop from time to time but during AOE focus on cleaving, Chakram, ignore Bloodshed unless there’s 1 super baddie in the pack and it’s absolutely essential to have your pets move with the tightest pack. There is seemingly very limited range on their cleave so I’m always clicking to the tightest groups for current target pretty much every global CD between hitting buttons.
The weird thing you will see as your gear goes up is your haste goes down despite it being your best secondary. I had around 30c, 15h and 30m around that iLvL before buffs. Eat haste food for well fed buff - you can level cooking stupid fast I think you can get to around 40 or so with just vendor reagents it’s stupid. Always have a food buff. Super handy.
But there’s a lot of micromanaging the pet for the biggest bang when it comes to damage. I’m assuming things like Counter, Intimidation and Scatter/Binding are all rotating CDs in keys for you for interrupts. If you’re not using Mouseover macros for those you’re probably dropping small moments to swap target, interrupt and continue which over the course of a dungeon will eat your DPS uptime. Counter is off the GCD so there’s no conflict there and learn to prioritize certain enemies in dungeons based on the important casts you need to kick so you can better plan when to Stun or Scatter. I roll with scatter over binding since it has a lower CD and is effectively an interrupt but not a kick so time your globals for the end of the cast to incur more time before that cast can be finished with a 2nd cast so yours or another party member’s kick can come off CD in the extra 2 seconds you just bought.
Plus there’s the whole learning curve, if you’re not 100% comfy with a specific dungeon or fight you are going to perform worse. My run this week in normal VotI was awful because we were trying to teach heroic strats to people on fights when they don’t exist in normal and pretending things were happening that weren’t threw me off - even small stuff like that makes me lose my groove. It’s weird hahaha.
I’m sure you know all this but it’s stuff to keep in mind. If you don’t play dude on the reg it can be awkward switching. I have a Pally tank and I absolutely lose my groove and noob it when I don’t play him regularly or if I play him for a few days then come back to bro here I’ll be off for a while. It’s like loading a save from a game you haven’t played in a while.
I had the same issue on my bm until I got around 400 ilevel with 4 set. It’s very viable but requires gear. The tier is very strong for AOE and required to compete in keys. I’d say you should definitely stick with it and make your decision after trying it well equipped.
in my experience: BM is fine-ish in M+. The AoE damage is consistent enough and a pretty good mob blender with beast cleave.
However, by the time you built up 3 Barbed shot, Bestial Wrath, and activated Beast Cleave; Marks has Volley already grinding the enemy, up to FOUR Explosive Shots ticking, and is winding up a Wailing Arrow.
Consistent AoE is great and all, but being able to liquefy a pack of mobs of enemies is almost always superior strategy. Especially so as enemies will die during your damage buildup.
BM suffers from really poor talents and a lack of AOE and a lack of burst.
BM is good sustained dmg which will probably be good for next week.
Keep seeing this guy post on hunter forums with half baked statements with nothing to back them up. Cant tell if trolling