Me after reading the last 100 posts, realizing its just people whining about complainers.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/633333989427380237/775175721068527626/what_10.gif
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Yeah, I realize how stupid it was to let myself get dragged down that rabbit hole 
The end of BfA was as insulting to the Alliance as the end of WoD…big Horde baddie commits genocide and gets a free pass for it because he did ONE selfless act. BfA was actually worse in this regard because after said baddie Saurfang lerroys Sylvanas and gets pwned, THEN we had to sit through a freaking funeral service HONORING him alongside our faction leaders.
I don’t care if Saurfang was angry that Sylvanas burned Teldrassil and was against it, he STILL stood with her anyways right up until she abandoned him to die in Undercity which makes him just as guilty as she is. For all his talk of honor, like most of the Horde he seemed perfectly capable of living with clearly dishonorable actions as long as the consequences didn’t negatively affect HIM.
He’s no hero, he was a war criminal. And what was his reward? Having the ALLIANCE eulogize HIM. And as a final insult nobody else on the Horde had to stand trial or pay for anything, Sylvanas is conveniently made the scapegoat for all their atrocities and we’re just supposed to deal with it. One more free pass they didn’t earn and WE are made to feel unreasonable for being mad about this utter sham like Tyrande rightfully is.
AND SPEAKING OF WOD…let’s not forget the insult that is the Mag’har Orc Allied Race which single-handedly ruined the entire Alliance campaign therein and made it utterly pointless because the developers decided they needed a Light-based villain and just made all the AU Draenei we spent a whole expansion saving including Yrel mustache twirling villains…
…just so Horde players can have a different color of Orc.
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Don’t you just HATE when your heroes go evil?
…
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I don’t mind heroes going evil, it’s why I always loved Arthas.
I’d just rather the developers didn’t ruin an entire expansion for one faction and make everything they did pointless just so the other faction can get another reskinned Orc.
I think most would agree.
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Story wise, needed a pair of Horde win warfronts. The problem with the two we had? Both were really alliance-y. Freaking Darkshore, and reclaiming Stromgarde.
A Barrens and/or Durotar front, or Ghostlands. Either would have both demonstrated the Horde as not being Lebensraum-y, as well as showing that aggression was more mutual, and serve as sensible Horde wins.
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Sylvanas. Garrosh. The demons. Generic “Bad Apple” General #1. Generic “Bad Apple” General #394. Those imperialist Alliance dogs, for having the audacity to refuse to roll over and die, so the Horde can steal their stuff. Anyone and anything but themselves.
And some of it’s just the dissonant tone of the game. N’zoth changes the color of the skybox in a couple zones, and we kick in his front door and lazer beam him to death. The Horde burns down an entire zone to the point it’s not even on the playable map anymore (past timey wimey shenanigans), and genocide a player race, but it’s all peachy because a spooky lady Team Rocketed away at the last second and a contrived #notallHorde subplot in the eleventh hour (despite two years of watching all the Horde go along with everything).
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They exist on both sides. I remember threads of horde aswell as alliance poster with a powerfantasy and demands for the destruction of the other faction.
Yes but everything said by an alliance player represents the whole fandom.
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Maybe, maybe not. I did not check that story yet, but people miss stuff. So, about naaru:
The naaru vowed to use their mastery of Holy magic to spread hope and nurture life wherever they could find it.
© Chronicles 1
Tyranny of the Light quest has such line:
High Exarch Yrel:
Your people are choking the life from this world… dooming the land to desiccation.
So, even by itself it’s peculiar, because that is exactly the thing to trigger naaru to react. But there is more to it.
Warning, requires re-checking / salt / pepper / pancakes!
What I’ve heard (did not do the scenario myself yet) is that when you do the mag’har recruitment quest line, you can click on orcs there to get extra voiced lines. One of those line (propably) mentions that they killed Primals. Given that there was a conflict between Primals and Breakers, if orcs indeed crippled Primals, that would mean, that Breakers would turn Draenor into desert and it will be destroyed eventually just like Outlands; different way, same outcome.
IMO the big fail of WoD storytelling, is that it failed to portray the effects of “time” as a force. Orcs in alt timeline, supposedly usually attack draenei. Draenor have to become Outlands. Just like in our timeline orcs destroyed Draenor, it is likely that their actions would lead to the same result in other timelines too.
The failure is, that insted of telling how “time” forces the events to follow the certain path, people see it (because of the failure of the game) as turning orcs into vilains. Which might not be the case. But still, if what I was talled was correct, once it would be revealed, likely people would see it the same way: lightbound would be portrayed as “redeemed” or “justified” because the alliance / light is so “pure”. Instead of the story about “time” and “timelines” trying to mimic the events and pushing them in a very specific direction.
gl hf
Wow, that was a lot of whining for alot of those posts.
Blizzard have to take their time with it and give the factions time to breath and grow before they ever broach the prospect of war between the factions again. They need the proper build up to with the character development that leads to one becoming evil.
There has to be build up on both factions, the Horde need more character development. There cities and towns aren’t important. Most of their races are nomadic by nature. The Horde is defined by the characters that lead it not so much the land in which they dwell(except perhaps the blood elves)
Honestly I think the best thing the Horde could do is just leave… They just up and leave Kalimdor and eastern kingdoms and move to the broken isle and Northrend and resettle. Have some stories/comics/novels of them resettling the new lands and rebuilding in these wild parts of the world and interacting with the locals of these places, without violence. This allows for the Horde to rebuild and define itself and get some proper character development.
It also shows the Horde has no interest in further conflict with the Alliance, infact they want nothing to do with them. It also shows their willingness to change and challenge themselves to find their own place on azeroth far away from the Alliance.
It also mean any attempts of the Alliance to then pursue them would undoubtedly put them in the wrong. It also means the alliance can rebuild in its own lands. Perhaps where the Horde might flourish the Alliance may have issues. Perhaps they start blaming each other or the Horde(although they are innocent) and the Alliance starts to fall apart, leading to that darker narrative alliance side and them taking the war to the Horde.
Also I dont care for them villain batting Turaylon. The guy is already aware that the light has a zealous nature he has even warned Anduin to not always blindly trust it. Not to mention he has fully accepted his void ridden wife and all that entails, nor is he a racist or bigot and has worked along alien races to fight the legion.
I’d prefer Anduin they play up his Nativity and he gets brainwashed by the light. during shadow lands perhaps the light(yrels army) invades the shadowlands again and helps defeat the Jailer(saving anduin). The civil war will be started by Anduin when he comes back from the shadowlands and tries take back the high king position. he thinks he can run it better but as so much time has passed they don’t want him back in charge, they don’t want to be lead by a high king.
There were datamined strings for a Barrens warfront, and I think the Southern Barrens are still even playing the warfront music on live, but I’d bet that the reason it never came to fruition is the poor reception the gameplay of warfronts had (though honestly I enjoy them fairly well).
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What’s the source for this idea? Genn hasn’t exactly been a slouch when it comes to aggression, and we barely ever see Tess.
First, didn’t we already have this story with Fandral and Leyara? And second, I’m not confident the writers could or would pull this off without making the Horde guilty and therefore justifying Alleria.
Where do we see that in the game? I know the hotheaded dwarf is a fantasy trope, but it doesn’t seem to come up much in WoW.
He has got a long way to go before that would become likely.
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Not sure about the game. But iirc in Before the Storm novel Falstad Wildhammer had idea to use azerite to shatter the horde even before the 4th war.
From wowpedia:
Following the fall of N’Zoth, Falstad was present at Stormwind where he learned that the armistice ending the Fourth War between the Horde and Alliance was signed. Though willing to give peace a chance, he vowed that while he can forgive, a Wildhammer never forgets.
I do not think that dark iron ~are could be considered a super peaceful nation. Or that Muradin would follow steps of Anduin.
Possibly. But he used a bit of void magic here and there for a while, at least since MoP if not earlier. He was on that path, so, while he won’t get there immediately, it’s a possible option overall.
Given how much destruction there is across Azeroth, I am a bit surprised we do not see such things more often. Most stories have been told at some point, but flavours could be different.
True. At the same time, destruction does not have to discriminate. If Turalyon dies because of some kind of betrayal within the alliance, that could still radicalize her approach to things. Pair it with other easy to ignite leaders / nations, and it seems like a possible recipe.
Greymanes overall are rather hotblooded (it seems).
Genn Greymane (Shores of Fate):
I don’t mean to defy you. But if I didn’t give the order, I think Mia would charge off to battle without me.
And yes, while it’s possible that the prophecy of three signs could be about Anduin, part of it is off.
Prophetic Pamphlet
The king below will cast away his diamond crown.
Day will break over the city of eternal night.
The wolf cub will inherit a bloody pack.
Humans are not a pack. Nor they are bloody at the moments. But worgens could be, plus the vengeance motive of both worgen and night elves could play a role.
Tess Graymane (Battle for Darkshore):
Some atrocities simply cannot go unanswered.
gl hf
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Falstad isn’t “dwarves in general,” though.
You know what I think we need? I think we need a vengeful, grieving Horde character who has lost everything to the Alliance.
Ah, okay, I see what you mean. But it’s worth mentioning that “bloody” isn’t necessarily the same as “bloodthirsty.” If Tess is the wolf cub, then it might mean the Gilneans/worgen will be beaten and battered when she takes over.
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Well, story of different races is told in WoW by using leaders as a “proxy”. Is there a better way to get such info? Most NPCs have just generic answers.
Closest I have is his “wildhammer never forgets”. So, at least his clan won’t forget the 4th war. That’s how I see it, but, of course, it’s always possible that I missed or misunderstood something.
Talanji? Depends on the execution IMO. She has valid reasons. But it can be anywhere from “meh” to actually really interesting long running mix of political games and accurate military operations, with assistance / guidance of Vol’jin / Bwonsamdi.
Possibly. I did not think about it. Thanks for the idea.
gl hf
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That pamphlet was pre-Legion, wasn’t it? It’s not impossible for Tess to somehow take over the blood-whatever worgen, but given that the other two prophecies were about Magni awakening and not returning to his role of King of Ironforge, and the other one being about Suramar coming out of its bubble, I figured the wolf cub thing was Anduin taking over for Varian, who Goldrinn had a thing for.
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Yes, Legion invasions.
It’s like with the “torch that Lights the way”. Sylvanas calls the empty Xal’atath dagger that way. Xal’atath after leaving the dagger calls the player character that way. And there is a bunch of other things like that too.
You could be right. And for me that’s the default and the most likely meaning. However, he became a diamond king only when we meet him in Ulduar with Khadgar, iirc. So, there might be more to the story. Or not - who knows.
There was also Naz’jatar. And, however unlikely that is, presence of the Light in Revendreth fits the theme too.
I just note different possibilities and sometimes try to recombine them into different stories.
Yes, it’s the most likely thing. But I am not sure what to do with “pack” and “bloody” parts though, if it’s all about the same thing. But I could also miss a bunch of things.
gl hf
My guess would be: pack refers to the alliance as a whole (presumably because of him “inheriting” the high king title for some reason), and it being bloody is talking about the Broken Shore fiasco which caused Varian’s death in the first place.
Edit: To me, the thing with that pamphlet is that its prophecies are somewhat time-sensitive since it was talking about signs you’d see that would prove that the Burning Legion won. Now that Legion is over, I don’t think those lines could apply to future content.
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