I’m making a rogue can you prove to me that its better to put points in combat than in assasination?
I like the assasination tree better. I’m just thinking I’m losing 50% Offhand damage which might suck.
Butt I’m gaining 15% Evis damage , cold blood, remorsless etc.
Check out this build.
add https
classicdb.ch/?talent#fhe0oxtrZZxMeochoo
does 50% damage increase raise it to 75% or 100%?
100
This is for PVP. So I’m losing:
50% oh damage
Imp gouge
5% hit which wont hurt because some items will have hit on them
Riposte, which sucks
Sword specilization
blade flurry
im gaining
5% crit
15% evis dmg
ruthlessness (chance to add combo point)
relentless strikes
poisons
lethality (increases crit dmg of hemo by 30%)
40% chance of adding combo pt on hemo crit
COLD BLOOD
6% increase dmg when in kidney shot
so to me im really missing the 50% white dmg
It’s not terrible. 15% more dmg on evis. 5% crit. cold blood. poisons.ruthlesness. relentless strikes.
and no you dont have to be behind the target just because you have points in assassin
im hemo swords, remember?
the only question is is the 50% white offhand damage im losing significant enough to not take 15% evis dmg and a plethora of other good talents.
Assassination is good. I love it actually.
Combat is also good.
Just a different play style. Choose whatever your gut tells you. Don’t listen to internet people who claim to know everything. Enjoy the game your own way
Dual Wield spec is probably the single best damage talent for the class. Blade flurry blows CB away in terms of damage as well.
Better is a matter of what you want. The linked build is not a bad control build, as in easiest to pull off a stunlock. It also relies upon evis, which works naked, and hurts at first, but does not do especially well as gear increases.
It is almost a worst case for damage, skipping nearly every real damage talent.
My theory on being a rogue is that an unstealthed rogue is a dead rogue. It is better to finish that fight fast and get back into cover, as while you are working a stunlock someone may very well come along and ruin your day. Stunlock rogues are not good at all in 1 v 2 fights.
My preferred pvp build towards the end of classic (1.12) was this (it is a weapon switch build):
classicdb.ch/?talent#fZhbqbbVzZEMxc0hoq
You ambush to good effect, then switch to a big slow sword and hemo.
or this if you do not want to deal with a weapon switch
classicdb.ch/?talent#fZhbqbbVzZxrxocGoq
There is also a variant that takes imp bs and uses it if you can stay behind the target, but it is a bit point starved.
The biggest things you miss are actually imp gouge and imp sprint. The cooldown reductions are not to be underestimated either. You can rotate them as a rogue if you know what you are doing, but you need cooldowns to win fights unless you are winning them with ambush or stunlock, as they are your mobility.
It’s not different playstyle, other than fewer gouges for me.
http://classicdb.ch/?talent#fhxboEzIZZEz0schoo
do that though guy.
I like the weapon switch. Can you tell me more about it? Would you make a macro to ambush, then switch to MH sword?
Is that possible with one button?
I always just used a different macro to weapon swap. If you chose to use ambush at all. Garrote works better with hemo. You can put the 3 ambushes points into something else in the same tree if you dont like ambush.
Prove that 50% OH is “the single best damage talent”
So you have a macro to swap weapons… would it be possible to put it together with ambush?
75%, not 100%
anyway, OP, combat is the best DPS spec for raiding until you get in maybe AQ40/naxx gear, at which point assassination and sublety have scaled good due to seal fate, improved eviscerate, or the 10% AP talent… and serrated blades is not the be underestimated, though that one doesn’t exactly scale
and then combat is still pretty good at that point because combat has 2 good dps cooldowns
I don’t know for sure if combat swords or combat daggers is better, but combat swords is probably better
if you wanna PvP, though, then the three specs are all good for it, and you could even dip heavily into all three if you want
combat has the dps cooldowns to burn people down with
assassination has vigor, better poisons, cold blood, and more combo points
and sublety has prep and premed and hemo and improved ambush
theres also CB/prep and more
Only go heavy into combat if you want sustained dps - ie not pvp. Pvp works best with burst damage for rogues. They’re squishy as hell and can be kited so they won’t receive the heals a warrior will.
Rogue PvP builds should never go deep into combat.
hit isn’t common and do you want to miss an opener?
That extra second can allow a restealth.
Stopping your opponents damage is useless? Theres a reason why disarms nolonger exist in wow, it’s because they’re ridic strong.
All of that being said, you need to actually play with the build and get it working for you. Theres no wrong build but it seems youve picked a build to play with at cap, pick a build that will get you there quickly for pvp then respec.
This.
Rogue is the only class that focuses on white damage for PvE so the talents that boost white damage are hugely important for a PvE build and they create sustained DPS.
Sustain is useless in PvP for a Rogue. Sustaining contact is hard unless you have put talents into all the stunlock options and then you want high burst to finish the target so you can gtfo as Ghool said.
Proving this would be difficult, especially in pvp, and without a specific gear level target, but what would you compare it to?
The increase going from 50% to 75% offhand would be worth about 15% of white damage (1/7). Assuming white damage is half your damage, that means it is worth about 7% total damage, or about a percent and a half of total damage per point.
Aside from that, it scales well with Precision, Serrated Blades, Blade Flurry, Deadliness, and gear. If not gouging, snd is almost always my first cp, even on a player.
You could indeed macro a weapon swap on your Ambush, such that you Ambush and immediately switch weapons without an additional cooldown. I had it both ways.
I might want to double ambush, or think I might otherwise vanish soon enough that I should not switch.
Swapping also normally resets your swing timer, so sometimes you may not want to do while actively wailing on someone (many people fell to ambush plus one hit from my giant offhand sword, I usually saved the switch for my first gouge or loss of control such that it was free)… or did it immediately after that giant offhand sword connected. You have a moment as you just need it before hemo, and you just spent all your energy on ambush and snd if you are staying in.
Keep in mind that players were not made “elites” until BC. A crit ambush is reliably half a casters health. I had a rogue and mage at 60, and my rogue could very much one shot my mage with a good Ambush (I was mostly in “of frozen wrath” gear, not hp gear). This is a best case ambush build, so a squishy target means you can be back in stealth in close to the stealth cooldown. If your ambush does not crit, you can gouge and attempt restealth.
You can also snd + bf, and try to power on the damage, with hemo helping you build enough cp to make finishers manageable, or lay an expose armor on a 10k health sl lock and chew them up faster than they thought possible as you have decent sustained damage.
Everyone has the “best” pvp build though, as they are highly linked to play style.
I like speed and options, so I like sub / combat. I also liked ganking at LHC and uneven fights, and in those cases you want to be a razor. If you want to take that guy who just barely wandered out of range of the group playing find the rogue, you had better do it fast.
PvP was much faster and more brutal than it is in retail, there was a lot of two shotting going on by a lot of classes (hunters, warriors, and mages being the other notorious ones), and this made stealth a lot more valuable.
You do not want to be caught half way through working some complicated ritual dance on some guy for like half a minute when his mage or hunter friend shows up. You want to be in stealth, so you can power into that mage (if it takes more than a few seconds you are not going to win that fight regardless of spec), or avoid the hunter.
I meant it sucks i wont have it
is that as a hunter, you’re dead anyway.
All builds can be useful to some extent even for PvP. Combat having improved sprint which breaks CC is amazing and allows you to pretty easily screw over a Mage.
However, for me, I like Subtly. I simply cannot function as a Rogue without improved Stealth and Movespeed. It makes the idea behind the Rogue so much smoother. Ghostly Strikes is a fun move that can be used very well in questing causing you to dodge so much you spend far less time healing. Its also the only build that will make a Rogues CC possible in Dungeons.
Overall, for leveling, Subtly has it all. PvE potential, amazing PvP potential, and groups will love you for being that “one rogue” that actually does more than just DPS.
Considering Combat is the spec for Raiding. I would say 100% go Sub or Assassin, you will have plenty of time to play Combat at 60. Enjoy the other specs in the meantime.