If you don’t spend time reading what I post then you don’t have the ability to actually comment on it do you 
The forums today are gold…
You know nothing about me because…
You have no idea what type of person I am. I will be loving Classic WoW for a long time.
Seriously why even bother with the forums if you comment on stuff you don’t read. Who is bored here?
“needs” Now who wasn’t reading agian?
No one needs to spend the time, because your post has no merit. You already fessed up that the only thing you cared about was numbers crunching. In a game where 99.9% of the variables are already known.
Yea most will, the time of waiting will be over. We can play World of Warcraft again!!
Put it to you this way; Ironfoe procs off specials too. If you Execute and it procs, during recklessness with Blood Fury, Diamond Flask/Earthstrike, Deathwish, etc, you can have some insane strings.
When we were running Black Temple in makaveli on Shadowsong shooting for Top-25 US, we used to have our Warriors weapon swap to Ironfoe (3 or 4 guys had it) during Execute phase. It was that good.
Rumor among private server boys on Fight Club Discord and other theorycrafting centrals is that Ironfoe had a Vanilla proc rate bordering on ~20%. I’ve never found definitive proof of this.
But I can tell you that on the Nostalrius core, it was roughly ~4.3-5.6%. And it still dominated.
I remember Ektelion running UBRS for friends with his Ironfoe+Felstriker combo and doing 1200 DPS on the Beast and constantly pulling aggro and dying. He also had Patchwerk logs approaching 1700. We’re talking about pre-raid weapons absolutely dominating parses from other players with R14 weapons, AQR, Servo Arms, etc.
It is that good, and any tank worth his salt will farm for it. Some will get lucky and some won’t. The ones who don’t will roll Annihilator or Aged Cores and a dagger like Alcor’s.
DPS will go for it as well. It is definitely better Ally-side due to the innate human racial, but you’ll still see Horde players with it.
It’s also super fun on a Hemo Rogue.
As for HoJ, it is utilized all the way through the entire game in a variety of encounters and scenarios.
For melee DPS, white hits are over 50% of your DPS. Every melee would be foolish not to enjoy the luxury and power of extra attacks.
Post like this is why I made this thread. While some here said it’s replaceable early on, others like you and with the right gear/situation have Iron Foe as BiS as it scales indefinitely with buffs etc.
Some said it’s too rare but I will be trying to get it for my build. I see value in it and also am curious as to where exactly the Proc rate will be at. I think it will trigger a lot and make it something that can always be used for the entirety of Classic and worth having.
I’m with you here – it’s fun to be able to throw the “right” way out the window and figure out a play style that’s fun for you.
To everybody else, I don’t think he’s insinuating that pursuing BiS is the “wrong” way to play or that nobody should do it, but rather that people shouldn’t get too hung on up figuring out the singular most “correct” way to play and force everybody else into that, because doing so ironically ends up ruling out a lot of experimentation and theorycrafting – people running experimental builds end up getting told that they’re wrong and shouldn’t even bother trying because the “right” way has already been handed down from on high, which is a damn shame when a big part of Classic’s appeal lies with its lack of streamlining and McDonaldization.
The proc, according to old websites, is somewhere around 5% or less. If it were 20%, Then that would make spelladin really extremely good. Even with the theorycrafting that the paladin groups were doing, they were putting ironfoe at BiS for all of vanilla for spelladin if it had just a 10% proc rate.
I have a feeling it’s 5% ish. However no one knows really and memory for those who did know can be faulty. The 2% ish sounds really low and anything above 10% seems bonkers but who knows. I do look forward to seeing how it works out though.
If it was on the 2% end of things, there wouldn’t be tons of post of it proccing a lot. Especially in regards to testing it with Hand of justice that didn’t proc that much.
So 5-10% wouldn’t surprise me.
I would laugh if it is actually higher than 10% though.
You’re welcome man!
I use Mobinfo2 addon and over my 4 Warriors and 2 Rogues that hit 60, I’ve done over 1100 BRD Emperor kills. The longest stretch I had before it dropped was 138 runs. Most of those runs were maybe 20 minutes doing lava hops and having a Rogue buddy solo the torch room.
But it’s always been worth it.
That’s my biggest joy for Vanilla is that sense of achievement. Even when I was deep into AQ40 on my Rogue running around with Viskag and Maladath I farmed for Ironfoe just for the prestige and to say I got it. And boy was that grind to rank 13 fun with Hemo spec Ironfoe. Landing double 2500 Evisc crits on random clothies. Juicy.
It’s well worth it.
Yeah I would agree it’s probably lower in that 5% range as well. It was around that for my toons based on my own testing of ~10,000 swings on those blasted lands mobs that don’t die. I just never found any definitive proof in my 8ish years on private servers that said it was specifically this or that. But I digress, you are probably right.
I would love it to be higher than 5% but, even at 5% it’s still estimated to be the best weapon for spelladin to use when you’ve used up the charges on an MCP and is even very close to the point of out-rite replacing an MCP.
I don’t know much about these spelladins they sound interesting.
It’s basically a ret pally that uses enough melee haste (and pseudo-haste) effects (and a little crit) to keep vengeance procs up and uses Seal of Righteousness as its seal of choice due to its spell power scaling.
The big problem with it’s proc chance is that back in vanilla, 5% really meant 5%. There were no unlucky streak prevention mechanisms. There were times it could proc back to back(if it didn’t have an internal cooldown) and then other times, you’d go over a minute without a single proc.
The equation to solve your probability of getting a successful proc vs number of consecutive attacks is as follows:
1-((1-x)^y)
x=proc chance
y=number of attacks
By attacks, I mean auto attacks+instants+windfury procs+etc
So for example, on your first attack, you will have a 5% chance to proc. If you haven’t gotten a proc by your 5th attack, it will have ~23% chance. For your attack to have a 50% chance to proc, you’d have to attack ~13.5 times in a row. If you were to get extremely unlucky, to have a 95% chance to proc on attack, you’d have to attack 58 times in a row.
And these percentages don’t mean that it literally has a 95% chance to proc, it means that the odds of going that long without a proc are pretty slim. Like flipping a coin 50 times and having it land only on tails, it’s very unlikely.
25% = 5.6 attacks
50% = 13.5 attacks
75% = 27 attacks
95% = 58 attacks
You can input the following into WolframAlpha to see a curve:
1-((1-0.05)^y), plot y=1 to 100
An enhancement shaman example:
Let’s say you auto+stormstrike+WF proc, that’s 4 strikes at once and that means you’ll have ~18.5% chance of procing ironfoe.
Without doing a bunch of math to calculate the exact effect flurry has on your average swing time, I’m just going to say it takes you from 2.4s to 2s swing time on average. That means you get 30 swings per minute+3 stormstrikes=33 attacks, which gives an average of 6.6 windfury procs(WF can’t proc off itself in 1.12). That means that overall, in a minute, you’re averaging 33+(6.6*2)=~46 swings per minute, which gives you a 90% chance of having at least one proc in that one minute.
TLDR: It’s definitely a very powerful weapon and is BiS for some builds, however, it can be pretty unreliable. For most builds, assume at least one proc per minute, but don’t get your hopes too high like it’s going to proc 10 times per minute.
/End rambling math rant
The proc in vanilla by 1.12 was approx 3% (edit: max 5% depending on patch), and it no longer chained (edit: nerfed about 1.8). Private servers are irrelevant.
Edit: You do your digging researching Ironfoe and you’ll see the 04/05 posts of Rofo/Rofocale using this, a lot. I’m one of your best sources of first-hand information and helped figure out it’s proc chances and constant nerfs every patch from 1.2. It’s a sexy beast, but I doubt 1.12 Ironfoe is everything you’re dreaming it’s going to be.
I have a Ph.D in wowstatPhysics, tyvm
Thanks for all your time in breakdown on procs. I want to be like YES I own one and to use it in a specific build. I think if the proc rate is 5% then it will work just fine.
Chained are you referring to procs off procs? Or you mean they added an internal CD? There has been some debate on this as well. I know procs off procs were nerfed on it (as it should be) but what of ICD? Of course that makes a huge difference in play as if it’s proc rate is 3-5% which would be good with no ICD. Getting a Proc then moments latter another Proc is great in a lot of situations.
Well I want it cause it is a sexy beast. It should be fun for awhile is my hopes. Phase 1-2. If I get use out of it in a few builds for a few phases and just having one is cool. It more than was worth it.
From 1.2, when I got Ironfoe, to about 1.6 when I first quit it could proc off of a WF proc, and vice versa. I got constantly reported on Blackrock as horde for spamming the alliance since it procced so much I could speak it 50% of the time (the FoF proc forces your /say and /yell to be in dwarvish). It was also +3 attacks back then, rather than +2. It got repeatedly nerfed each patch for obvious reasons until 1.12 saw it with a very low proc-rate compared to what it once was and the ability to chain proc off of itself or other procs (WF, HoJ) removed.
The philosophy w/ late vanilla was to standardize a lot of the dungeon loot, alongside the dungeon 1.5 set or whatever it was called, and they increased the drop rate of all the rare end-boss dungeon epics. To counter this though it was nerfed to MC level.
No idea when/if ICDs were introduced as I didn’t really play post-AQ, but by 1.12 before BC when I came back it procced maybe once every 3 fights instead of once or twice per fight. PvP-wise, I didn’t really raid and if I did wouldn’t be swinging the thing.
Private servers were probably never using the 1.12 version as I heard it could be 10%-20% chance on those, which was closer to original OP Ironfoe with +3 pre 1.7ish. Dunno, never played on them.
Edit: Screengrab of the +3 attack version at 1:04 here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eapaXQpiycs
If the proc rate sucks in Classic, then Prot Paladins, Spelladin Rets, and Spellhance Shamans will use Flurry Axe instead of Ironfoe. Well, Spelladins and Spellhance will use it when their MCP charges wear off.
As for HoJ, it is good to have but I think melee classes will take an “on use” rather than RNG.
The only reason to use Ironfoe over better DPS weapons is 1. A human(mace spec) 2. Yellow Glow.
I literally have one I farmed back in 2005, still in my bank.