#Ionpromised

[Tyándra-moon-guard (Tyándra)]

Nope. If people are stuck in queues, that bulge won’t disperse for far longer, so we might even get a “all of phase 1” long queues, which would be counted by both Blizzard and public perception, as a failure.

Funny, I don’t recall any of Blizzard’s expansions being deemed a “failure” because of terrible launches.

I believe this is called “more fearmongering”, but hey, that’s okay, since it’s “an argument” in favor of YOUR stance, so in that case it’s perfectly fine, right?

I’m sorry, where exactly do you think you have ANY GROUNDS whatsoever to accuse anyone else of “fearmongering” ?

The two solutions are not identical nor do they have the same outcome

This is quite irrelevant. Both layering and login queues are undesirable, and it’s not a question of which one is “less desirable”, since that’s a matter of personal taste.

You and Blizzard apparently think Layering is the lesser evil - me and others disagree.

Ok, great. You will have what you desire. You’re arguing against something giving you what you want.

I never said I “want overcrowdedness”. Don’t put words in my mouth.

I said I don’t MIND overcrowndedness, and I think overcrowdedness is a lesser evil compared to Layering.

How hard is this to understand?

How hard is it to argue in good faith without putting words in my mouth?

A layer is designed to give you a 3k player experience, regardless of the number of people on the server.

But never the same 3K people. That’s the issue.

So you want to change the game away from Vanilla now?

No, I never said such a thing.

Once again, do not put words in my mouth.

Arguing against words you put in my mouth is called a Straw Man, which is a logical fallacy.

That’s what you’re arguing for if you say you want more people than Vanilla ever had, in each zone.

Once again, I never said any of that.

And just as final icing on the cake:

So… you’re a troll? Got it.

This coming from the person who argued against Straw mans.

But yeah, I was wrong. Forgive me. What a fool I was, for thinking that someone as divine as you could ever say something wrong. Your reasoning and logic are infallable! Clearly me pointing out how flawed your arguments are, means I’m a TROLL.

How could I have been so foolish as to think you wouldn’t call me out on it.

You’re a joke of a person.

Don’t bother replying to elolrael he/she/it doesn’t have the basic comprehension required to understand why layering is bad for the game. Unworthy of attention

Rest assured I fully expected he would resort to fallacies to maintain his ‘chance’ at ‘victory’.

[Eloraell-moon-guard]

I don’t recall any of Blizzard’s expansions being deemed a “failure” because of terrible launches.

You don’t remember Vanilla launch then. It was horrible. We were given more than a month of free game time because it was so bad, in the first 6 months of the game.

This is quite irrelevant. Both layering and login queues are undesirable, and it’s not a question of which one is “less desirable”, since that’s a matter of personal taste.

I think people aren’t quite sure what the word “Irrelevant” means around here. When presented with two options, and one is more undesirable than the other, you don’t pick that one. It’s not a question of personal taste because Blizzard is implementing one of those solutions.

You and Blizzard apparently think Layering is the lesser evil - me and others disagree.

And Blizzard gets to choose.

I never said I “want overcrowdedness”. Don’t put words in my mouth.

I said I don’t MIND overcrowndedness, and I think overcrowdedness is a lesser evil compared to Layering.

Actually, without further techniques like Dynamic Spawning, it would be again, considered a failure. People don’t expect bad launches any more because we’ve had many good ones in the past.

Arguing against words you put in my mouth is called a Straw Man, which is a logical fallacy.

Yet, when I quote you saying it, it’s not putting words in your mouth. Congrats.

You’re a joke of a person.

Again with the ad hominems…

[Tyándra-moon-guard (Tyándra)]

It was horrible . We were given more than a month of free game time because it was so bad

All the more reason to want a bad launch, I would argue. Free gametime!

Best solution to the whole problem, I would argue.

When presented with two options, and one is more undesirable than the other, you don’t pick that one

I LITERALLY just said, that whether A or B is less desirable is a matter of opinion, not an objective quality.

And you wonder why I start to question your mental health?

It’s not a question of personal taste because Blizzard is implementing one of those solutions.

Ah, I see. If Blizzard picks blue as the colour for gift wrappings, people who prefer red are WRONG.

Brilliant.

Yet, when I quote you saying it , it’s not putting words in your mouth. Congrats.

I am not going to do this circlejerking with you. Just because mommy says you’re special, doesn’t mean I think you’re worth the effort.

If you’ve got nothing of substance to add, stop prattling.

[Tornos-spirestone]

All excellent points. I stand behind you.

[Eloraell-moon-guard]

I LITERALLY just said, that whether A or B is less desirable is a matter of opinion, not an objective quality.

Except that they are objectively different in desirability, both for a company delivering a product, AND for players who want the game to still be flourishing in 3 months.

Ah, I see. If Blizzard picks blue as the colour for gift wrappings, people who prefer red are WRONG.

Reading comprehension please. It’s not a matter of personal taste, because only ONE solution can be chosen.

[Tyándra-moon-guard (Tyándra)]

Reading comprehension please.

Follow your own advice. I’ve seen enough of your nonsense.

[Brockthorn-malygos (Brockthorn)]

There’s also paladin seals not working correctly (might be due to batching) and warlock pets all wonky like hunter pets.

[Caelle-exodar (Caelle)]

Im not worried at all. Layering is no different than a million others where people complain and then at the end of the day they come silently slinking back.

There will be a tiny few who will stick to their guns, but frankly I think even most of them will be back because the private server scene for Classic will mostly dry up.

Also Im not worried that it will last longer than it needs to. Ion and Blizzard themselves are very measured when it comes to doing things. They never ever actually use the word " promise " in regards to anything. Anyone who says " Blizzard has promised stuff in the past " is putting their own thoughts into the statement.

Honestly, I’m not sure I can remember them using the word for anything ever, let alone in the last decade. So if Ion used it, there was a reason for it.

[Tyándra-moon-guard (Tyándra)]

Im not worried at all. Layering is no different than a million others where people complain and then at the end of the day they come silently slinking back.

There will be a tiny few who will stick to their guns, but frankly I think even most of them will be back because the private server scene for Classic will mostly dry up.

And you think the issues from login queues and overcrowded early zones for a few weeks would be any different?

If not, why bother with Layering at all?

[Caelle-exodar (Caelle)]

Actually I do. This is 2019 not 2004. The things people find acceptable are not the same. Having a game launch in an unplayable form is no longer acceptable.

Keep in mind, whether players are ok with a poor launch and being unable to play has little bearing on things. Blizzard is not ok with that happening, and that has been the case for a while now.

[Tyándra-moon-guard (Tyándra)]

This is 2019 not 2004. The things people find acceptable are not the same. Having a game launch in an unplayable form is no longer acceptable.

I call bollocks on this argument, but we can agree to disagree.

Can’t say I ever appreciated developers / marketeers / random hipsters on the internet telling me how I supposedly feel about games.

[Mogar-stormrage (Mogar)]

A message from Ion to Ion:

[Caelle-exodar (Caelle)]

There is a reason the further you go into expansions the more they have tried to split that initial surge of players up.

They have tried various ways over the years, some more successful than others, but its one of reasons why in retail they went with scaling where you could play any zone. Heck with WoD they even went so far as to basically throw everyone into an introductory instance ( which they then screwed up royally by needing everyone to click on the same item at the end).

This really is just the next step in that evolution, but in this case its less about playable content and more about having servers end up with healthy populations at the end of the madness.

[Brockthorn-malygos (Brockthorn)]

of course there’s a reason…to get players subbing up.

Once you’re invested you won’t leave.

[Tyándra-moon-guard (Tyándra)]

but its one of reasons why in retail they went with scaling where you could play any zone.

Coincidentally it’s one of the reasons retail sucks these days. Usually the cure is worse than the problem they tried to solve.

Heck with WoD they even went so far as to basically throw everyone into an introductory instance

And what a wonderful and memorable feature that was…

This really is just the next step in that evolution

Excuse me for not being particularly thrilled.

The reason people want Classic is exactly because they want to get AWAY from the retail design perspective.

[Caelle-exodar (Caelle)]

Eh as long as I’ve been playing WoW even I’m not that cynical. Blizzard wants people to play, but even they have stated they never use words like " promise" because it leaves them no wiggle room.

Ion knows this more than anyone.

[Heidene-kelthuzad]

Ion really is the best at debunking Ion.

It’s honestly astounding how well he can say all the things my Classic heart wants to hear. And it’s just as astounding how funny Ion makes Ion look in future interviews about layering.

[Caelle-exodar (Caelle)]

While I get that, trust me, there is a reason Im no longer subbed and Im playing SWG, one thing Blizzard has been very big on is having smooth launches. Whether its retail or Classic, they are not going to have thousands, possibly millions of players sitting around waiting to play if they can help it.

We as a group of players may be fine with it ( although I personally don’t think most are these days ), but they haven’t been for a long time.

[Laeric-wyrmrest-accord]

Very few people ever were okay with it, to be honest.

[Fuzzyshoes-wyrmrest-accord (Fuzzyshoes)]

Layering sucks