IO score needs replacing

Community General Discussion
1

The idea of a scoring system is good, so no I don’t want IO gone because “iT’S nOt FiAR!!”, but I want something to replace it that shows more info.

Also since I tank mostly I can basically get into a run if I am looking for something around my iLVL and IO, that’s not close to what the issue is.

So I have timed all dungeons at 7++ or better except SD, I don’t claim to be the best player in the game, but I also don’t push hardcore keys like some people, but the fact I tanked and healed my own KSM in BFA S4 via pugs only and primarily tanked SL, with 6 of the 8 dungeons on my best run being as tank.

I have something to offer, I’m by no means a terrible player who gets carried and does not deserve a spot, but at the same time I have to now start hoping to find groups who do M8-9 and hope they time them to get a better score, and even than sometimes you just laugh at what you see.

M6 checking IO 1K+… guy listing the key has an IO of, lowest I’ve seen so far, 246 I think it was, I signed up for a laugh and got rejected. Who has that Spongebob meme for me? You know the one.

I get it, you don’t want the key to fail, but at the same time an IO score only shows so much and some players base everything on that score, they could not care less about anything else since the system is now so enshrined in LFG.

Some days I look at LFG and just think this is dumb and don’t even bother. From my experience those who ask for a significantly higher IO than their own are really bad players, especially those who ask for a higher IO than you can get from doing keys at that particular key level.

A combination of logs, parses, key completions, key fails and most importantly:

  1. The amount of keys you have left
  2. Been the first person to leave

I think those last two points are paramount to knowing what type of person you are getting into. Sure, someone who fails all their keys may be the primary reason they are failing keys, but maybe not. If you could see how much damage they were doing in correlation to how much damage they are taking, along with keys abandoned, it would tell you the full story.

Someone who does not time much, is in a lot of abandoned keys, first to leave or not, and takes a huge chunk of damage, that tells me they are bad and people do not want to stick around with a bad player.

At the same time someone who times every single key they are in looks good right? But what if their parses are crap, they take a lot of damage, leave a lot of keys and are the first to bail? That would make them also equally as bad.

2 Likes
2

Why not factor in if they’re a good tipper and kind to animals while we’re at?

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Aha , caught your “leavers in M+ suck thread” Red handed . :rage:

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I don’t support anything that shows the full stats on # of timed / untimed runs at a glance. Even if it can be used in combination with other stats to get a better idea of their likely performance, we ALL know that’s not how this goes. People look, see they’ve failed 65% of keys above +10, and decline, despite the fact that the person in question has been the top DPS, top interrupter, and least damage taken in 90% of those runs. Fact is, you can’t carry a group alone if you’re not doing keys lower than your gear/skill level.

Showing how often someone leaves, on the other hand, would be a welcome addition if it were at all possible. Even if it’s internet issues, someone who consistently has that issue probably shouldn’t be doing time/performance-sensitive content, especially in pugs, so I don’t feel bad about this info being public. But given that IO pulls from M+ leaderboards, I don’t believe it’s currently possible to mark that someone left a dungeon before it was completed. ESPECIALLY if the dungeon is never completed in the first place (because higher keys are basically impossible if someone bails).

Basically, I think Blizzard would have to go out of their way to collect that data and allow addons to pull it for this to be feasible.

1 Like
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From my experience, people who start their own groups can ask for whatever requirements they want.

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Sure. No one is saying they can’t. But it’s a red flag if someone is asking for something they haven’t even achieved themselves yet. People can ignore the flag and join, and they will. OP doesn’t have to, and that’s fine too. He was just sharing his experience, which is likely pretty close to accurate. Pretty sure IO has options to display someone’s main’s IO even when on an alt, too.

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This is a premium feature, so 99% of people won’t have it.

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I don’t care how many keys someone has left. I’m grouping to time content, not to find friendly lads and ladies to be friends with. People don’t leave keys that are going well(and we wiped 3 or 4 times but can probably still time is not the definition of ‘going well.’)

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I haven’t had an M+ leaver since about halfway through BFA actually.

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This is already in the game. Check to see if the player is from Ragnaros. That one word encompasses every attribute that concerns you.

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I had 2 the first day of Mythic+ in Shadowlands. One of them was kind of understandable because we were trying to deal with a pull that was clearly intended to use a Spear on in Necrotic Wake (we finished it with 4 after they left, untimed). The other just had something come up partway through and we finished it with 4 in time for +2.

But more generally, leavers in M+ tend to happen for 1 of 2 reasons:

  1. The group is failing bigtime and looks like it will either take an extended period of time to finish the (untimed) dungeon or not complete it at all.
  2. The leaver is there to increase their io score and doesn’t need / care about the loot, and therefore leaves the second timing it looks unlikely.

We’re too early in Shadowlands for your typical group to have leavers for the 2nd reason. I’m sure it’s happening, but most people can still use the gear as well, so it’s not going to be as prevalent yet.

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So people should be penalized by the community for other people’s failures? If a group is billed as a push group and it’s clear that pushing isn’t going to happen, I shouldn’t have the group leader’s failure to put a decent group together held against me.

Rather than punish people who don’t want their time wasted, try increasing the skill level of the average player base by forcing bads to group together. Oh wait, you can’t because player-organized content is not within Blizzard’s purview. It never has been, and never will be. Raid requirements were created by the community, not Blizzard, just like IO score and M+ requirements were created by the community. It’s our problem to fix, not theirs.

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io is awesome…if we didn’t have it, we’d just have LFG and that would be a disaster for pugs :slight_smile:

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People also look now and see an IO score and base everything on that alone, and some of us know that also doesn’t work.

Yes but asking for something outside of your own abilities can also lead to more failed runs, like that M10 listing I seen where the person was under 300 IO score, 100% they got carried in an M11 or higher and 100% they will want to be carried again. More often than not people will not see this, join the group and it will fall apart because the people joining where not expecting to carry someone.

Oh yeh I take a lot of note of this because at least it shows something about someone, I mean sure they won’t hit as hard on an alt, but if their main is 2.5K than at least they should not be a burden.

Instead look at it as an overall statistic.

Say someone has 100 runs, 50 are timed. You would think they just got unlucky a few times, maybe they were bad at first and are now learning.

But if you see someone has a stat that says they joined 200 keys and 100 were not finished, even if in none of them they left first, that’s still 50% of all keys they joined that had someone leave, that’s a pretty big indication they may have had something to do with it.

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All recording key leavers and who leaves first dose is make people afk when there done with a key or hearth but not leave group till someone else leaves first. Ya that will so go over well. It solves nothing and only makes people “Traped” in toxic groups. It dose nothing what so ever to make people less likly to drop a key or even tells you anything about who is more likly to.

Next you will say well than kick them and record it as a leave.

That is even worse as now you get people kicking for causing even the smallest mess ups for when the group leader kills a key he blames someone and kicks adding to there leave list ya that’s going to go over well.

There is no possible good system to track key leavers. While even if there was should not be be. It is within a persons rights to leave a key for what ever reason they want. If you call me a idiot and a retard when I’m tanking for example since you think I should of los x pull and I dint if it’s your key I will drop as no reason a person should put up with that. Tracking leavers only makes people traped in these bad groups and that is not healthy.

16

the trade-off is the someone brings the key and puts the group together. he carries all the risk, you just join and swing your sword around until anima drops.

I’m okay with group lead stacking the deck in his favor as a trade-off for putting the group and key together. the fact that he even has the key implies he can’t be too dum-dum…

17

His key, his requirements, as bad as terrible as it is.

Also make your own group

18

Assuming you done this in every key you wanted to leave because it was not going to time, or it was just a s*** key, sure it won’t show you as being the one who left, but it will show you as being the one who was in the group when someone left and that adds up.

I never said I don’t make my own groups, I also realise it’s their key and their requirements, I am not asking them to stop doing that. I am asking for more information so we can make a better informed decision on what keys we join and who we take for our own keys.

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rio is a fan create system, if you think you know how to do it better, then by all means create your own version of it and start promoting it.

2 Likes
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FYI, human nature in ELO is to play as few games as possible to not de-rank.

so be careful not to kill M+ with your new and improved system, buddy.