Moorcock would call his statement objective. And rejecting objectivity itself is itself an objective statement, so the position refutes itself.
No it’s a subjective call.
Objectivity is an ellusive thing in this world if you’re going to be honest.
If you truly believed that position was subjective, you wouldn’t argue so fiercely against objectivity.
Kind of reminds me of when Obi Wan said : “only a Sith deals in absolutes”
I was thinking… that sounds kind of like an absolute.
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I’m not arguing against it. I simply find the proofs you present for it to be lacking.
Most of what is considered “objective” is merely consensus.
In most cases, that’s the best we can do.
Except you do it anytime someone, not just me, calls for objectivity (even when they’re not talking to you).
I agree with Zerde on this one. In current WoW, they unburn houses all the time.
As far as Arthas’s soul and a Retcon :
I am a fan of how he ended. Having Sylvanas yak at him in his last moments was fitting. But…
I have posited that perhaps there are more true realms of Death that predate the First Ones establishing the Shadowlands. That the Shadowlands is almost like a veneer on top of the actual Afterlife.
Like maybe the First Ones saw the Afterlife, and established some order to it to keep it self sustained, with anima and robots. But it was initially something different, and there may be vestiges of it. More layers.
Almost like we live, then die and go to the Shadowlands, and then when we die there, a sliver of our existence might go forward to the truer death the First One’s never got access to.
There, in the truer death I sort of invented and guessed at, could be a sliver of Arthas.
Maybe Sylvanas finds out about this older realm in her travels.
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Funny you mention there being older and orignal afterlives than the ones that were ordered by the First Ones. My personal headcannon is that the shadowy realm that the death knights visit to get their deathchargers is one of the many death realms that exist and every planet has a such a realm that you can’t see unless a being of death takes you there.
Would explain why some spirits linger when killed. They’re merely floating between one veil and the next since a physical body is no longer a barrier to do such things. But that’s my take
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It’s called an open forum, not speak when you’re spoken to. Any post that’s made is open for comment by anyone, whether they’re being addressed to, or not. Deal with it.
It does show that you’re not my special project here.
I’ve always seen them as the service realms that keep the rest of the Afterlife going.
I’ve always stuck with the classic “unfinished buisness” trope. In Golarion the goddess who does the Arbiter’s job is Pharasma. The first undead was a mortal that refused her judgement now the goddess of undeath Urgathoa. Occasionally souls don’t make it to her judgement because they persist as undead or are stolen on the way. Also anyone sacrificed on an altar to a given god is sent to that afterlife realm whether their actions merited it or not. (There’s even an altar golem that does this as a special attack) Resurrection of someone killed this way requires a cleric of the god the altar golem is dedicated to.
That is the Veil/Rift.
That place is the True Afterlife while the Shadowlands are just the Realms of Death.
The Emerald Dream of Creation(the First Ones’ Blueprint for all existence) extends to all Worlds in existence so it is no surprise that the Veil extends the same way and considering Day of the Dragon suggests the Emerald Dream is tied to the Afterlife it is likely the Veil is the other side of the Dream.
The Souls of course are so aligned with Death that the Shadowlands AKA the Realms of Death become their weak point and therefore is the place where the First Ones send Souls to just in case any are a threat to the Dream of Creation.
The First Ones had the Maw and Maldraxxus created for a reason and I presume that getting rid of Evil(Maw) and Warlike(Maldraxxus) Souls that could taint the Dream was that reason.
Funny how we encounter the Emerald Dream/Rift’s version of the Maw and Korthia via Riftkeys with both being ravaged by the Mawsworn!
If Souls are too saturated with Fel they become indistinguishable from Fel Surroundings and are consumed by them. If Souls are too saturated with Death they become indistinguishable from the Shadowlands and are consumed by them.
Souls can only survive to enter the Afterlife by becoming distinct from the Realm they are killed in.
Of course in order to revive Arthas you have to force Azeroth to believe Arthas is an actual person not a figment of her imagination which would require a brutal punishment for the World Soul to force her to relinquish him.
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Whatever. Still undermines the “evidence is lacking” claim and shows a pathological aversion to objectivity.
Not going to catch up on all these pages just remind y’all- Christie Golden was also part and parcel of the final group of Star Wars books in Legends which was basically the final nail in the coffin.
I don’t blame her- Troy Denning ran that show and it was clear that there were three different directions the authors were pulling. Three authors each writing three books in a nine book series.
But I am starting to feel bad for her. Every project she gets involved in someone else tells her how it has to end and it’s always… mediocre. Though I don’t know what she would do with free reign, either. Might be worse.
RIP Vestara Khai really hoped you would end up with Ben Skywalker, instead your story just got axed.
That was the Fate of the Jedi series. While it was the last, iirc it was better received than the preceding book series “Legacy of the Force” (the one where Star Wars’ best redhead 
by Darth Caedus). Plus, there have been hints that Disney will bring the book series’ main villain into Disney canon.
I am curious to see how the situation with Vestara and Ben played out. If it helps, in the Star Wars: Legacy comics, we meet Luke’s great-great grandson Cade, so maybe Ben and Vestrara reconciled.
Back to WoW, maybe there is hope. As much as I despise the dumpster fire that is Sylvanas’ story, Christie Golden tried to fix that mess, and if that story was what they went with the first time instead of being the last in a long line of retcons, it wouldn’t be so bad.
I call it a healthy skepticism to claims of objectivity. It’s exteremely hard to exclude one’s personal subjective factors from any observation or conclusion.
Yeah the one before Legacy was bad, and that was partially on Karen Traviss too. But Golden didn’t do anything to fix it IMHO. And Abeloth was the worst part of that series.
On to WoW I still don’t trust her. Don’t dislike her as much as some others.
But I think the perfect example is her self insert warlock she put into the books. Last one of hers I read is War Crimes but that warlock always saved Varian.
Despite, you know, only being ~4-5 years after all Warlocks were hiding in basements and now they were integral parts of the Alliance military.
/10chars/
Karen Traviss 
. Now her writing was foul. What didn’t you like about Abeloth? And which warlock self-insert character are you talking about?
I knew a lot of people back then who didn’t like her simply because of how OP the character was compared to everything else.
I always thought she was an interesting character personally and was hoping the Asoka show would have made her cannon
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Abeloth is essentially Star Wars Cthulhu (or maybe Nyarlathotep). Though that is a big leap in power level.
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She had a Warlock in both War Crimes and Tides of War that saved Varian and winks at him or the like. Both times she gets just a few lines of dialogue but she’s confirmed on twitter that it’s her main that she put into the book.
Just don’t like a Warlock, that until recently would have been imprisoned on sight, now able to wink at the King of Stormwind and be part of the main force. WoWpedia also has her on the trivia section for the game.
She also inserted her Nelf Priest but I don’t even remember her, it was fairly inconsequential.
Yeah Traviss was the worst, along with Denning.
My main gripe with Abeloth- and I will be the first to say Legends (basically) started with Dark Empire and of course the Force is big in Star Wars- is that the series got very grounded. We had family squabbles, yes Caedus, extra galactic invaders. But everything was somewhat believable, along with the Force.
Then we get eldritch god Cthulhu wannabe who comes back when killed and it was just a weird vibe. She wasn’t even supposed to be the Mother eventually, Lucasfilm told the writing group of the time to move her to the Mother and include the Dagger to better tie in with the cartoon that was running at the time.