So I was looking at the tooltip for Insidious Chill added in the general tree for DK on the left side and with the addition of Warriors getting a mass grip, Paladins getting a battle res (in addition to those classes already having Rallying Cry and BoP, Lay on Hands, Bubble, Devotion aura respectively), if this is an explicit attempt to add utility back in for DK for raid and M+.
For the tooltip it reads:
"Your auto-attacks reduce the target’s auto-attack speed by 5% for 30 sec, stacking up to 4 times."
Obviously, all things considered auto attacks are not the damage reduction that say Rallying Cry is but with a possible 20% auto attack reduction on bosses with no cap on how often it occurs, I am wondering if the constant damage reduction provided is enough that the intended hope is rather then bring another buff to bring a damage reduction for all tanks by slowing boss attack speed down.
I really dont mind the idea of a near constant, full uptime debuff applied to raid bosses, but think the tuning would be trickier for raid vs m+ and wonder if its significant enough on just auto attacks to be useful. (It’s also just before ERW so i am sure a lot of people will take it. Especially since Will of the necropolis + blood draw is seems overkill for a lot of DPS DKs.)
1 Like
Do we even know if it will work on bosses? I know people were speculating on if it would or not, and then complaining that Rogue’s also get this Utility, and is quicker to apply due to weapon speed.
At this point, not sure if it applies to bosses but if not, its almost certainly less useful than anything else in the same row. That is something I guess would need testing if it is working properly in Beta.
I discussed with a guild tank and guild lead and they had differing opinions, the tank thought it would be negligible on raid bosses, useful in M+. Guild lead thought it would be pretty useful across the board. I still think id rather all DKs get gorefiends and have AMZ not be an absorb shield, but a % magic damage reduction for 8 seconds. But it seems blizzard has different views on gorefiends being in the general tree.
it wont apply to bosses no
back in wrath there was a talent icy Talons that made Frost fever do that only it did 20% and raised yours by 20% out of the box. and improved icy making your haste by 5% faster and making the raid 20% faster
I don’t see why it wouldn’t work on bosses, frost fever reduced attack speed back in the day and it did work on bosses.
In fact, 20% attack speed reduction was a standard debuff for tanks to apply to a boss.
Back when we had chilblains it didn’t work on bosses either
And I don’t think this needs to either
Because if it’s only based off auto attacks it realistically isn’t useful.
In m+ one main target may get 2 stays in a pack of trash but the rest are attacking normally. That damage reduction on one single target in a trash pull of 5 or 6 is neglible.
If it procs on DK auto attacks on one target and doesn’t effect cast time, abilities, or anything other than auto attacks and does not work on bosses, it would be pretty useless at actually providing any meaningful damage reduction as the only fights it could see use would be high health trash on fortified weeks for m+. Because you would be unlikely to get the full benefit of 20% reduction on auto attacks in other scenarios.
I tested insidious chill against LFR Xavius on the PTR and it worked on him and all the mobs in his encounter. I’m under the impression that the raid bosses are usually pretty consistent about what works on them and what doesn’t, but it’s ptr so maybe it’s a bug.
Well that neat that it does an I hope I makes it to live
On PTR using the raid boss test dummy it is applying the auti attack speed debuff, but its ONLY auto attacks. So it might be worth it for bosses with notoriously high attack speed, but its usefulness is definitely in question for M+ where the entire dungeon is big/chain pulls with the occasional solo boss.
We never reduced attack speed by 20%, it was a whopping 6% from Improved Icy Touch. This was mainly to get Icy Talons which when you reduced the enemies ranged and melee attack speed yours increased by 20%.
There would be a debuff on the boss, but that doesnt mean it was actually working. I dont think anyone actually had a boss swing timer to see if the debuff was actually reducing boss attack speed and I dont think anyone really cared if it was or not.
You may want to go back and read tool tips again. In wotlk frost fever baseline reduced melee and ranged attack speed by 14% with a talent to increase by 6% to a total of 20%.
For retail, I’m not 100% sure, but attack speed slows should work on bosses. I remember checking 2 logs with and without curse of weakness (was no other slowing debuffs too). The boss melee attack speed was decreased. So why shouldn’t this DK talent do the same?
Edit
Here is a log were the only attack speed slow is from havoc DH sinful brand for 30% slow. While brand is off the boss, the melee swing speed is roughly 1.5 sec. While brand is on the boss, the swing speed is roughly 2 sec. 1.5*1.3=1.95 which is close enough to show the 30% attack speed slow works on bosses.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/pNPAJwXgcx64qyFh#fight=1&type=damage-done&hostility=1&pins=0%24Separate%24%23244F4B%24auras-gained%241%240.0.0.Any%240.0.0.Any%24true%240.0.0.Any%24false%24317009&source=19&ability=1&view=events&start=21433&end=57099
1 Like
Never know with Blizzard. I also never actually cared about it. If its just going to passively happen its going to passively happen. It being 20% (read the actual FF debuff and not Icy Talons and it doesnt give out the % on the debuff just says slows attack speed) is irrelevant because its just going to be up. You want to maintain FF and BP just from a basic standpoint.
Not to mention that there is a completely different issue at hand is that only one DK can really bring this debuff. They shouldnt stack so any other dk in the group will want to avoid this, if there isnt a way to avoid it then its just bad placement and a complete waste. I dont really care much about DF design at this point. No matter what Blizzard does these forums will hate it.
According to a clip from Maximum, it stacks with the the rogue numbing poison. With the 3 percent damage reduction poison added to rogues in general tree, that would be picked over numbing, so dks may have some utility other than grip.
This could be reasonably impactful in PvP against melee classes.
Particularly ones where they can get some kind of buff or proc from auto attacks like we do.
Also against traditionally difficult opponents who use physical damage like warriors, windwalkers and ferals.