Initial Thoughts on TWW Ret Paladin

Classes Paladin
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So far, how is everyone feeling about Ret in TWW? How do you feel about Herald and Templar?

I am absolutely eating my words right now and somehow have ended up greatly preferring Templar to Herald.

I am still not a massive fan of the Hammer theme it has, but it is incredibly satisfying to press Hammer of the Light. To my biggest surprise, I enjoy pressing Hammer of the Light even more than Demolish on my Arms Warrior.

I have only reached level 73 so far on my Ret but this weekend I will finish up my leveling journey for a much better idea overall.

I did play around with Unrelenting Charger and I must say the increased 30% movement speed after we cast it is noticeable in PvP, at least in battlegrounds so far.

For some other general feedback and feelings, here is what I could say.

I haven’t been the biggest fan of losing out on basic Paladin utility over the course of Dragonflight and now into TWW. Things like Cleanse, Crusader Aura and Retribution Aura. None of which on their own are game breaking, just more so that I feel like some of my extra Paladin flavor is missing.

I would still love to see Divine Purpose no longer give an increase to the damage/healing of the free Holy Power proc ability and instead have its base chance to trigger increased.

I would also like to see Final Reckoning give us some other type of bonus effect instead of also just increasing the damage our finishers do during its uptime.

Still of course would just love to have an instant gap closer in some fashion. Unrelenting Charger essentially is a way to get us closer to that without just giving it to us.

Would still prefer to revert Crusading Strike’s implementation and instead have Templar Strikes be our default talented replacement for Crusader Strike. Alongside this I would prefer Judgment and Hammer of Wrath be combined. But this I understand is a very personal flavor opinion.

Really enjoying all our of new cleave/aoe talents in the Ret tree besides Empyrean Legacy. Not the biggest fan of this one personally.

Consecrated Blade is on the fence for me. On one hand, it feels great to drop a Consecration automatically with Blade of Justice. Very thematic. But it is annoying in Pvp. I could live without the ability to attempt to get a rogue out of stealth by pressing a manual Consecration, but can we add the ability for Blinding Light to at least not break specifically on Consecration damage? That would solve it for me personally.

How is everyone else feeling so far with their initial impressions?

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Hammer of light completely makes the spec. They really nailed how hard hitting and good it feels to press.

Pretty disappointed with Herald. Expected a lot more from it. Still formulating my thoughts into words but for now im just meh about it.

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It needs tuning.

It hits about as hard as an Icelance that can be spammed during CDs. Ret needs tuning in general. I think the play style is fun for sure just needs tuning.

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Racechanged from a zanda to a dark iron and will prob go back horde to earthen cause all the hammer abilties feels out of place for a troll.

That being said templar is very strong earlier on but herald gets strong at 80.

Both are viable in pvp and its so much fun deciding between a bursty high mobility templar or a more sustained high healing tankier herald. Both viable in pvp and divine storm spamming in dungeons made me decide to main my paladin again this expac.

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It is very fun! My AOE damage in dungeons is pretty good, too. Can’t speak on single target or raid viability of course but I have a raid slot either way in my guild so it won’t impact my ability to see the content. I just hope I’m able to contribute in a meaningful way.

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Was initially a herald fan but in practice it feels very spammy when things pick up. Which isn’t really what i’m looking for. Sometimes i feel like i can’t spend enough holy power as herald in AoE, meanwhile in single target it slows down a lot because you don’t get as many dawnlights.

I’ve been really vibing with templar in a way i did not expect. A 5 holy power spender was a turnoff at first, i though it was going to feel slow and boring. But as i play more with it i feel it’s got a very nice and comfortable flow. Which is what i was looking for in a spec, and unlike herald the flow doesn’t change between ST and AoE.

And because ret’s very very forgiving, sometimes i’ll flub something up and then look sadly over at my numbers and be like “oh, actually that barely made an impact” which is a far cry from what i was dealing with as a devastation evoker previously.

I’m having a lot of fun right now. Even holy is more enjoyable than when i tried to learn it in dragonflight

I hope dracthyr can be paladins when they get more stuff because i miss the way my boy looked, and the general breadth of customization they had compared to my male belf. Also i really miss glide and soar.

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I’m enjoying TWW ret quite a bit. I do prefer Herald over Templar by a significant margin, though. To me Templar just feels like an extra button to press every 30 seconds and that’s it. Everything else is passive.

On the other hand, Herald feels like it actually interacts with our kit in meaningful ways. The light beams feel good to position, the Divine Purpose proc feels good, and the HoW nuke procs feel amazing. It even gets a little offhealing and a passive speed boost.

I hope they end up balanced well enough that people can pick what they like.

Those are still there if you want them.

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In pvp so far, it feels like trash
Too much samage is baked in crusade, herald feels smooth with radiantglory. Templar plays betger with crusade for on demmand burst but overall, the spec feels and performs like trash outside of avenging wrath. You get kited, cced dueing burst and your attacks deal negative damsge. Our healing is worse than df. We cannot selfsustain, cannot heal others, and depend too much on wings. Not fun at all and actually reminds me of DFs1 ret. If the spec continues playing like this I will just quit (just like df s1)

Pve ive only done heroics and delves as templar and its ok. Outside of wings we deal healer levels of damage.

Overall it feels worse than df and the only “highlight” is hammer of light but even that feels underwhelming in pvp compared to all ther specs

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I dont know if you all playing wrong cause "Im rocking the Templar Paladin, way better then I was doing with BM that is awful right now lol. So much faster to kill stuff. and aoe will it will probably get nerfed lol.

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Herald of the Sun is extremely powerful, just not in heroic dungeons where the average trash pack doesn’t stay alive long enough to get full value.

Herald will be a good high m+ spec but it may need some buffs.

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I really enjoy ret so far. Aside from the number tuning which feels a little off in some places it’s probably some the most fun I’ve had playing paladin.

I played with both hero specs and herald is my favorite between the two hands down. It’s a little slow to get the ball rolling with it while you’re leveling, the tree feels really backloaded with it’s power, unlike templar which feels frontloaded to me, but once you hit 74 and can get sun’s avatar? Feels amazing particularly if you run radiant glory.

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Honestly I was wishing Templar had more , the effects the damage

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Coming back to add more personal opinion feedback.

My biggest gripe currently with Ret is Empyrean Legacy.

I don’t enjoy the automatic Divine Storm attached to my Final Verdict. All of our other talents like a cleaving Final Verdict or a proc of Divine Storm from striking is good to go.

The reason I find this talent annoying is that its something else to randomly keep track of for starters. It’s not something that freely happens on its own.

Then, I dislike how it also consumes 2 charges of Judgment for each finisher. Really just randomly will knock me out of my good flow from time to time if I’m paying attention to my debuffs.

Really would like some kind of redesign for this talent.

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Doesn’t it?

In ST you don’t really care, it’ll just happen without you having to worry about it.

In AoE, mostly at the start of pack you’ll just hit your FV first then go back to DS for 20sec.

You don’t have to track it per say, it lights up FV when it’s available.

My personal problem with it is that it basically doesn’t scale with haste at all.

It’s a free DS every 20sec without any means to reduce the CD.

I don’t think its particularly interesting neither do I want to see Vanquisher’s Hammer (the original ability) make a comeback but it does seemingly integrate into the rotation.

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I guess I’m really comparing Empyrean Legacy to Empyrean Power.

My perspective is a PvP perspective as well.

With Empyrean Power, you have a 15% on pressing Crusader Strike to proc a free use with a 15% dps buff to your next Divine Storm. It freely/randomly happens on its own and you must click its own button to make it go off.

With Empyrean Legacy, its on a 20 sec cooldown window. So its not freely happening on its own in the background in a sense because its gated behind this window. Since its not completely random and chance, you essentially have to track it.

You want to track it because this ability is going to consume 2 charges of Judgment instead of one, which can likely change the next button press you need to press into Judgment to follow.

Also, in PvP, it sucks have so much AOE damage tied to your Single Target stuff. You really “have” to take this talent because you are essentially hitting the target with 2 finishers in 1 moment which is the chunky damage that excels in PVP.

You just do not have the personal control to not have both trigger at the same time. Sucks to break CC especially your own Blinding Light because my next Single target finisher is going to auto trigger my AOE finisher.

I think that most of their talent ideas to bridge the gap between single target/AOE builds has been great. But I do not enjoy combining both finishers for a talent option. I would much prefer to keep them separate.

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