Recently, I’ve heard very divided takes on this issue.
Those who argue in favor of infinite character progression / player power:
gives players something to do and a reason to log in and do content (versus right now in SL where there is no reason to do anything)
content rewards will feel more “rewarding” as they’ll contribute to player progression
brings back more of the “RPG” feel in MMORPG as progression is aligned with player investment rather than raid-logging / vault RNG.
doesn’t have to be part of rental systems like AP or azerite power but can be implemented into an evergreen system like experience. (the concept of infinite levels but each level adding only a small amount of power like 0.1 pt to a primary stat, for example)
Those who argue against it:
tough for alts to catch up as they’ll be behind
no more borrowed power grind systems like AP or Azerite power. they were boring.
content in the game would feel like a chore because min/maxers will feel compelled to do dailies or WQs etc. to stay on top of the infinite grind
Blizzard will not be able to balance classes and specs, given the variance between those who will grind hard and those who will not grind at all will be very big
What does everyone think? Which camp are you more aligned with?
Edit: The discussion was in the context of PvE and not PvP.
It could be paragon levels or theoretically infinite ilvls. The discussion is more along the lines of not what the system should be but rather should it exist? (and if so, should it be evergreen like experience or relevant for only an expansion like artifact power for Legion weapons)
That’s fair! At least OP is leaving at as open discussion, rather than attempting to cram ideals down people’s throats.
Also, I’m apparently one of the few who actually liked the way Legion was handled with the artifact weapon progression. I know this forum hates “borrowed power systems” and all, but that was one where class fantasy trumped my mild distaste for the inconsistent systems.
I don’t think Azerite was that bad in terms on neck levels.
Yeah, surely i was behind some folks by a few levels, but really didn’t feel like it was that bad.
I think that’s the point I’ve heard some of the supporters make. They want some kind of system that rewards time invested but even they understand that it can’t be so powerful that the players who don’t invest time feel completely sidelined from content.
I’m against any infinite power increases that make content inaccessible to players that don’t have as much time to dedicate
By that i mean, a system that directly gives someone extra damage and survivability with no cap just because they exist will make someone with less time never be able to attain that cap and therefor never be able to win against them in pvp because the discrepancies are too great
There needs to be a cap to how immortal someone can be
Even rogue twinks had a cap of one shots limited by available gear. Now imagine how much more miserable bgs would have been if those rogues had infinite increase in attack power and could one shot out of stealth with an auto attack
It’s a fair point. Unfortunately, the discussion points I’ve heard were all related to PvE and made no mention of PvP. I’ll made that edit in the original post.
Yeah. And it’s fair. Players who invest more time should, indeed, be stronger.
I am baffled when certain players are “offended” that they can’t compete with top players when they have a few hours a week to play.
The people who felt the need to be at the forefront were working really hard. If you were 2 weeks behind and didn’t care about staying that way, it was easy.
I think one of the reasons they wouldn’t want infinite grindability of something like world quests is that the type of casual who plays a lot would be able to at least partly catch up to the raid logger types who want to log in, do their thing, and log out again until next week.
It’s an irresolvable issue that people who have different playstyles need different sorts of content and rewards to keep them playing. I mean, unless Blizzard accepts that it is a legitimate thing to have more than one right way to play the game.
I think this is definitely the source of the issue and it makes total sense. But I also think the crux of the issue is premised on Blizzard having limited time and development resources. And so, certain players would prefer to see one thing over another.
Infinite progression by its very nature is a never ending grind. That’s what we currently have each expansion.
For an infinite power system to work the power gains would have to be so small you’d never notice them. Otherwise old content would quickly become irrelevant.
I prefer having an end to something. There’s an end to gear. There’s an end to renown.
Ap grind from bfa never stopped which had players doing islands every week for no reason other than the ap. Indefinitely. Not a fan.
The problem with the current renown is that it was time gated so the same play loop was there as it was for ap. The difference is we haven’t gotten 9.2 yet which I guarantee will introduce another grind that requires weekly activities.
I feel like the general play loop should be: get mains to an end at whatever pace you desire without gates. (Some required like weekly lockouts for raid). Then move onto alts with catch up mechanics to mains so you can enjoy the fun aspect of end game with different play styles. New patch comes out, and do it all over again.
For players that don’t like catch up mechanics, then don’t do them. Regrind if that’s your desire.
