Blizzard should increase the party size to make getting groups as dps easier. I normally end up tanking and healing mythic plus because I hate waiting and I’m happy to fill those roles for my guildies and friends but I empathize with those who can’t get groups or have long waits for groups that want to dps.
Even if 5 mans became 6 man’s that would be a 34% increase in dps positions. A little change can make a huge difference in wait times. Personally I think it would be amazing to turn 5 man’s into 10 mans but at that point you’d need a second healer (which I also think would be cool) to give you a 1tank, 2healer, 7 dps composition by default.
Now is also the perfect time to make the change when they are doing the leveling experience change for shadowlands.
I doubt very much that this would help significantly long term, and it would hurt small guilds considerably by making it harder to field a dungeon team.
If they made parties 6 man, it’d be a travesty of it was just a dps. In Lotro, the 6th person is support. Of course they deal some damage, as everyone should, but their primary roll is buffing/offhealing/off tanking. Shaman and paladins used to be that, but they moved away from it since those days.
I’d prefer things stay as they are. Definitely not interested in turning dungeons into 10-man runs.
When pugging at higher levels, it’s actually tough to find 3 qualified dps. Sometimes as the tank I’ll sit there for 20-30 minutes filtering through people. Really easy to find a generic, bad DH though.
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Additionally, this isn’t necessarily as easy as it sounds. While I am not well versed in programming, and welcome corrections to anything I’m saying, I’ve seen it claimed in similar threads that the structure of the 5 man party is embedded deep into the code. Adding a 6th party member isn’t just waving a magic wand and making it happen, it’s a massive code rewrite to a huge part of the game.
If this is incorrect, I apologize for passing misinformation, but in any case, I think it bears considering that any change that may seem simple is not always so simple to execute.
More tanking specs did not significantly increase the number of people tanking. Go ask the average DH if they will ever consider raid or M+ tanking.
More DPS spots will not make it easier for DPS to get spots. More tanking/healing people will simply do DPS now instead.
If you want to make tanking/healing more attractive and DPS less attractive then you need to force more responsibility on DPS players that CANNOT be deferred to tanking/healing players. BFA did the exact opposite.
Understatement of the century right there. The average DPS, even in the 15-20 range is more concerned about their metamorphosis timer and their combustion macros than using the damn utility spells (not just interrupt) from their spellbook.
- how many times have you seen a mage or shaman or DH regularly purge ?
- how many times have you seen someone use a CC to stop dangerous casts, including non-interruptable ones, when other interrupts were not available ?
- this goes doubly for rogues, how many of them have you seen regularly use ALL their CC abilities to shut down multiple mob abilities ? rogue that sits there while a full cast of “riot shield” goes off I’m looking at you
- how many times have you seen hybrid DPS like ret pally and boomkin throw out off heals when the healer is struggling in dangerous situations ?
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My regular rdruid healer loves to hear me say “vamp’s going out”. That’s about all I can bring other then chucking a small speed boost on the tank when they’re kiteing.
I do agree with what you’re saying though, so many dps don’t use any of their toolkit.
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It can be enough of a struggle finding 3 qualified DPS for weekly 15s already, I don’t think this is the solution.
90% of the DPS complaining about not being able to get into groups are the kind of people who apply to 15-17 keys having never timed anything on that difficulty.
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Seeing as how the content we do as 5 man now is doable as 10man in classic it can’t be that hard
Apologies, I meant to specify HAVOC DH.
10 man is two 5 man parties…
Yes that was my point, they’re 99%+ havoc DHs from low skill level to high skill level. Blizz gave them a tanking spec and the vast majority of players don’t want to consider using it beyond faceroll LFD/LFR content. It was the same story with BrM for monks and blood (in cata and later) for DKs.
Anyways there are hordes of terrible DPS players flooding M+ ques all day and night. I have no desire to have to fill 4 slots with decent players instead of 3. As someone that hosts his own key 99%+ of the time the vast majority of pug DPS players have no business of applying to the key difficulties that they want to do based on their previous experience. I’m sitting here right now on a ML 18 key on my bear druid and I can’t find ONE decent DPS player to fill it. This is the easiest key of an easy tyrannical week.
Rift had a SUPPORT role. he could offheal (about 50%), great buffs/debuffs and about 75%-dps.
This is why I try not to pug anything higher than a 15, it can quite literally be almost an hour of waiting. Usually if it’s not on my warrior (his key I use with my push group) I’ll just downgrade it to a 15 and ask which guildies need their weekly.
Any time I ask in guild, no matter which guild I happen to be in, the qualified players stay silent and someone offers up their potato alt. I try to be gracious when I first join a guild, but every guild seems to have that guy who’s always on and I don’t want to play with.
I understand that feeling, it can be annoying to carry people all the time, but my guild has a policy when running people through stuff: we’ll run you through it but you have to actually try. Low DPS is one thing, but you need to do mechanics. After a few months of running people through stuff we have tons of people timing 14-16 keys, so there’s always people to run with.
Unfortunately, not everyone has the patience to do this. I’m not sure how we did it without going insane.
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We too have seen these types of result from efforts we’ve made in our guild. When I joined there were only a few people actively doing M+. Despite the frustration, and seemingly against the odds sometimes, our whole raid team is capable of completing 15s. Not everyone is fully independent, to the point they could pug flawlessly, but their knowledge and skill has increased tremendously.
A lot of the bad players in pug runs are just inexperienced or lack confidence in themselves. Guild groups are a fantastic way to foster that confidence and share important knowledge about the dungeons and keys in general.
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