Whoever thought it was a great idea to limit public orders by not letting us set item quality should be promoted to CEO. /sarcasm
Chat is so overfilled with with boosters/powerleveling/people spamming for requests for professions that you cant even get a word in edge wise. its ridiculous.
You can report boosters/power leveling spam in trade chat. Can also make trade chat a separate window. However, not allowing public orders to be a set quality is honestly the best thing for public orders. It’s the only way for people wanting to level up their craft to be able to do so.
I do not know what it is like on your realm but perhaps report/ignoring the boosters and seperating trade chat into its own tab might help in finding the crafter you need.
these boosters/ power levelers/key sellers, etc are spammin in trade chat.
but aside from that, no one wants to make public orders anymore because say they want a max rank, they wont even use the system as its intended because theyre afraid (and rightfully so) of getting ripped off by some low level crafter using up their expensive mats to make a 2 star piece of junk.
But that’s exactly what hte public order system is for. It’s for low level crafters to get crafting done and to level up. I understand the frustration of boosters, power levelers, and key sellers spamming in trade chat. I report them every chance I get and some of them get trade chat banned. It’s a nuisance but blaming public crafting system for functioning as intended isn’t fair.
You can separate out the Trade-Services channel into its own window, or leave it. At least on my server, the number of boost advertisers who spam in regular trade is extremely negligible. It’s more of a problem as a crafter, since there are a non-insignificant number of people who use the trade-services channel to look for a crafter.
Are you joking right? this is the main reason that public order is dead, so that most crafters are stuck at skill around 70. if thats the design goal for public orders not specifying min ilevel to support crafters leveling, it have just done the opposite.
I’m going to start out by saying that I think minimum quality should be on public orders, and that the benefits to customers would outweigh the negatives to crafters. That being said, being able to put quality on public orders would absolutely kill any ability for people to level with them. Everyone is going to put up their orders with a 5 star minimum, and leveling crafters would have less of a chance of being able to pick up a public order than they do now.
In order for it to work, they’d also have to remove the mechanic where the last 2 hours of an order are able to be done without using a charge so that when people don’t get their public orders filled, they have to either lower the quality or raise the price. Given that people who use the public order system are the kind of players who don’t really want to interact with the crafting system all that much, putting in an order and then waiting the 12/24/48 hours and just not getting an item back would probably tilt a lot of them off the face of the earth.
It can be benefit for both customers and crafters, by not allowing 5s min quality to be specified in public crafting orders. Almost none 5s endgame crafted gear can be guarranteed without inspration proc or insight. It wont be difficult for crafters to specialize in order to craft guarranteed 4s gear.
For example armorsmithing, you put 30 in hammer control, 30 in armorsmithing, 30 in one sub-category, you can unlock one piece of armor close to 4s. Which means you need about 100 kp to be able to craft 4s gear using 3s material guaranteed. It can be achieved in a couple of weeks I think, if not sooner.
Lots customers are OK with 4s crafts, but they have no easy way to order them without tradechat. Recraft will be the system for 5s topend gear. Customer should be able to specify inspration rate or require insight to be used by crafter to guarantee.
That’s not quite true, and would still be a disincentive to public orders. Pretty much every 392/405 (which is what the overwhelming majority of these orders are) can be guaranteed without an insight. Even at 418s, Scribes can naturally guarantee the 418 staves if they’re not embellished. Engineers are pretty close to being able to guarantee 418s without a safety switch (gnome engineers can do it). Leatherworkers can guarantee non-missive 418 gear.
Here are the breakdown of 1 BS armor piece, say making a primal molten legplates:
Recipe difficulty: 280 (base, without any addon)
Assume current profession skill: 70
3x blue tools: 22
3s mats: 70
Hammer control: 40 (30 kp)
Armorsmithing: 30 (30 kp)
Large Plate Armor: 30 (30 kp)
Total: 262 skill
So you are currently 18 skill short. You can put another 10kp in Greaves to have additional 20 skill points to reach guaranteed 392 ilvl armor. That’s total 100 kp which is not difficult to achieve at all.
if 392/405 are the majority demand, its quite achieveable for a skill 70 crafter to achieve. So the craft order with min quality won’t kill leveling.
It is by no means a “perfect” solution, given the BOP design. But it is much BETTER than what we have now.
Add on the 15 or 20 from a missive as well and it’s 33/38 points off which is 18-23 points invested in the specific armor piece. Which is kind of a lot just for 1 armor piece.
Again, its not a perfect solution but better than now. And it provides opportunity for leveling, not killing it (btw its dead now for casual crafter).
i have a dozen crafters in 2 realms all professions are skill 100 or very close. Not by crafting order nor tradechat spamming, but self sufficient by an army of alts providing limited materials. this cant be achieved by causals
No, the reason the public order is dead is because the bulk of the customers take a “if it is not max quality, it is trash” stance.
This is one case where the system is fine, but human nature gums up the works. Instead of asking for max quality, one might be better off seeing what quality is an upgrade and set it at that. Another idea might be plan for future, like I crafted boots and bracers on my LW (hunter) and I intend to keep the crafts and upgrade them so I have a fall back or options in gear to play with stats.
As an addendum, filling orders should always have a chance at a skill up, regardless of the crafters skill, maybe this would at least give crafters a way to skill up if they choose a bad spec (I went treatise then darkmoon cards on my scribe, only for sure skill ups are in runebinding or the proff tools/accessories).
True, bur look at the nature of players.
Why would I, the average player, put in a public order? I am going to want the best quality I can get. And going the public route almost guarnatees I am going to spend more gold, and use more matts than if I just found someone to make me the rank 5. Between initial commission, cost of matts - Plus recrafting and further commission costs. I might as well go straight for the Rank 5 and bypass the public order all together.
It’s an ok idea that completely ignores the player mentality and punishes you for using it.
This is the root cause. And it’s not a problem Blizzard can solve without just outright removing Quality as a whole. But then at that point we’re right back to pre-DF professions and it’s safe to say that the DF iteration is going to carry forward.
The system is, technically and functionally, fine. You can craft gear to fill in gaps, and then upgrade that gear to the point where you need to do difficult content for an upgrade past that. On its own, it makes perfect sense, and works, even when factoring in stuff like sparks and Quality.
Unfortunately, as already said, it’s a community problem, or rather, the expectations and perceptions of the community clashing against the system.
No. Stop just letting them off the hook.
If you have to make a container to keep snakes in and you make it out of chicken wire and all the snakes get out, you don’t get to say “oh man, the snakes keep getting out of my awesome container, it’s a problem with the snakes”. You designed something inappropriate for snakes.
WoW professions weren’t simple all these lo 18 years because nobody had any ideas to complicate them up until now. They were simple because if you make them more complicated there are snake problems. We already did this a bunch of times, not as grand as this sure but still a bunch of new ideas, but kept going back to the basics in the end because it works.
I agree they are invested in this now so we’re going to have to suffer through it for a while. But put the blame where it belongs.
Better idea: look at what BOTH sides are doing.
If you make it out of a material more appropriate for the snakes you think you are going to be dealing with bur the ones you actually are dealing with are different, is the container bad or is it just failing to take things into account.
He is, just ones like you don’t like the idea that you SHARE the blame with Blizzard. The system works when used as intended, but no one uses it because it does not work the way they want.
Blizzard could have made the system better, true, but the system only works when people use it as it was likely intended. Crafting was likely meant to be a progression path for casuals or those with bad luck on loot, not BLizzard’s fault people are seeing it only as a way to get BiS instantly.
Of course it is. This game is 18 years old. The moronic “Bisss” term has been in use for roughly 17.9 of those. It is wildly out of touch to imagine everything would suddenly change just because it suits your cool concept. Like literally, it is offering children the choice between ice cream or broccoli for dinner then saying, “well it would have worked if the kids all chose broccoli”.
Not designing for the existing specs is bad designing.
You don’t know anything about me. I don’t care about bisssssss, I craft my own gear with my own crafters and am happy however it turns out. I don’t think the system is bad because it negatively affects me, I think it’s bad because I can see it is failing basic design principles and because the majority of players don’t like it as evidenced by most of the chatter in this and other forums, and I don’t think that is a coincidence.
If something is badly designed, people can’t always see exactly why but it feels wrong to them. So since I have quite a bit of experience in this stuff I am pointing out where the problems are.
Behaviour only changes when it is motivated to change. Nothing else about the game rewards having second best gear (and no reason to imagine that would ever change). If everything else in the game is motivating you only caring about best gear then good freaking luck to one single aspect saying “hey guys, why not aim for third best for a while so my cool design idea works out”.
Players have zero power here. They respond to the presented situation. The person who makes the rules is responsible for how the rules work out.
Then the community is responsible, Blizzard just set the system up and let it be.
Having the second best gear might not reward anything, but having the best gear is not needed to clear content. As I said before
Not Blizzards fault that people want to skip to the best when the system is likely set to work so you get say 3rd best then you use that 3rd best to get 2nd best and then you use that 2nd best to get, oh, guess what THE BEST.
You want to pin the blame on Blizzard, but it is not Blizzard that says “you need x to do y” outside of the queueable content. That is the community.
Again, Blizzard does not make more then the basic rules, it is the community that really makes the rules
Argument ad populum or the logical fallacy of if the majority thinks it is right or wrong, it is right or wrong.
I agree that Blizzard could have done some things better, but I also see that the community needs a massive Gibbs slap. After all, even if Blizzard made the rules, it is up to the community to determine how they are going to work within those rules or form the rules they have within what Blizzard made.
This is correct, and a constant issue with World of Warcraft’s playerbase. Blizzard cannot fix what is a pervasive social issue across any MMORPG.
It doesn’t matter whether it’s WoW, FF14, Everquest, Runescape, Ultima Online, or any other MMORPG - At the end of the day, developers can only lay out and implement their intentions and design goals, it’s the playerbase that governs how those intentions and design goals are actually realized.
WoW’s playerbase has overall decided that BIS gear is standard. The baseline. The normal. Not the end goal. You are expected to have BIS even though the hardest content that gives the highest rewards doesn’t need it. There’s a marked difference between BIS making the hardest content easier to clear and making it required to clear. And WoW has never been designed in such a way that BIS is required to clear its hardest content, across any expansion or patch.
(Not to mention that it wouldn’t make sense that the hardest content gives BIS, but can only be done with BIS, but I digress)
To get back to the topic: I expect public crafting orders will see additional changes on major .1, .2, etc. patches, but Blizzard is playing a wait-and-see approach to the system as a whole in order to determine what to refine moving forward.