Could we make it so that the Weekly Quest stops being impossible (without having to use guildies/alts/etc or what-not) to complete?
My Jewelcrafter this week, on his first week, only needs 2 Crafting Orders to be done for the weekly, and it’d be nice to get at least a few Patron Orders done for their KP items.
Problem?
NOT A SINGLE ONE IS ACTUALLY POSSIBLE.
AGAIN.
This should not be happening. Patron Orders should always be stuff that is reasonably possible (stuff you already know, or stuff that is within 5-10 skill). I should not be opening my Patron Orders on Day 1 of beginning the craft and seeing a page full of purples, PvP gear, and stuff that requires 50-80 skill to even learn.
And for that matter, can we stop locking the 2 KP items behind epics with no materials being provided (especially if they are going to require 20, 50+ KP to even unlock their recipes)?
If your entire list is truly impossible, submit a bug report.
The dump every four days is always supposed to include two work orders from trained recipes. One from the 1-25/30 group and one from the 25/30-100 group.
I haven’t encountered an truly Impossible ones (yet) but I got one the other day offering 64 gold and some Moxie for an item that would require me to use a Majestic Fin. But they were providing the thread, so it’s all good, right?
“Impossible” is generally a pretty loaded term because, at least in terms of Patron Orders, they are not really impossible, but improbable due to some combination of other factors.
Rare mats, or a combination of mats, that so far exceed the reward that few players would willingly consider doing it.
Concentration recharge rate insufficient to make multiple items before they expire.
KP collection or investment that ignores how a player wants to play.
Recipe drop locations, percentages, and whether they are BoP.
And so on.
It can feel bad when RNG decides to crap on a character’s professions out of nowhere and you watch every day while you cannot, or will not, fill an order.
I got a tailoring one yesterday for 2KP that required me to buy a recipe for 200 moxie that I didn’t want to buy. That’s not “impossible”, but it’s not a good way to help players move their profession along. I’ll never use it (epic chef’s hat), and I haven’t seen it in a player order.
Tailoring KP shouldn’t be dependent on orders. If Enchanters can get KP from disenchanting, tailors can get KP from making things. Keep the crafting orders to moxie.
This always sounds like a good idea, but do you really trust Blizzard to implement it?
Why just Tailoring and not the other crafting professions?
How do you think this should be implemented?
How much credit to each Epic, Rare, and Uncommon craft?
How much credit to finished gear? intermediate reagents? basic reagents?
How much credit to other items like spellthreads and bags?
What does this do to material requirements?
Do drop rates increase or decrease?
Is consumption increased or decreased per KP?
How does amount per item change?
What does this affect for how finished gear is made and distributed among players?
These may be simple questions for you, your playstyle, and what you would like to see in professions, but will your answers be the same as Blizzards? Are they the same as the median player who has Tailoring?
Are you willing to take the chance that Blizzard answers these questions differently in such a redesign?
Literally, every single recipe in the crafting orders was an unlearned recipe and it would have taken significant work to get any of them unlocked.
Two of the were green-quality gems that you learn way later, and the rest were all blue and purple items, many of them locked behind KP walls. I should have screenshotted it.
In the end I wound up putting in 2 orders from the guild for vials and did that, but I shouldn’t have to do that.
The list should GUARANTEE that at least 2 of them are recipes the player already knows (and those two should always have 2KP items as the reward).
Considering that Enchanting literally gets KP from ANY disenchant, doesn’t matter what it is, I think that it’d only be fair that if the other crafts could get KP from any crafted item, doesn’t matter what it is.
Why should Enchanting get almost-free KP while everybody else has half of their KP items locked behind KP walls and reknown/moxie recipes?
It really fricken stinks when you pull up Blacksmithing, Tailoring, etc and see that all but one or two orders that give KP items are all locked behind KP walls or require reknown and moxie to get the recipe.
And the ones that you CAN do, only give Moxie or optional reagents.
And even then, most of the time, it requires exorbitantly expensive items to make that are not provided. Can’t say I wanna spend 5,000g to get 1 KP. /eyeroll
Meanwhile, I spent 10k on a thousand evercores and now my enchanter is 60/60 on her catch up (and I have like 800 left).
It just doesn’t seem fair or balanced whatsoever.
EDIT: I also might remind people that my OP was started about Jewelcrafting.
You know, that craft that requires you to roll the dice with 5 ore and MAYBE get a gem that you can use, that requires you to get to 20-30 to start learning actual recipes that the crafting orders want?
I tried crushing like 50-60 ores (which take forever to get, btw) and I got like 2-3 gems.
Just to make ONE cut gem, you need the gem to cut AND you need the dust from grinding THREE gems.
Not even Blacksmithing takes this much ore to get anywhere. My Blacksmith is like 50-something, and I think my Jewelcrafter used about half as much ore as my blacksmith did to get to like level ten.
To get your first few levels, the only way to do that is to crush ore, or make vials (which takes 5 glass and a stone for some stupid reason), when you get 1 stone, and maybe a piece of glass or two unless you’re extremely lucky.
Like who TF came up with this? Obviously, someone who absolutely hates the playerbase. RNG ontop of RNG, grinding up rare mats, blah blah.
Can we just go back to like MoP style Jewelcrafting? Where you just took the gem, and cut it?
And what do you even get out of the Jewelcrafting profession?
Two Rings (that are Unique-Equipped I’m guessing) and an Amulet (and probably some fluff items, and collectibles).
And the ability to cut gems to put in non-existent sockets because socketed equipment is almost nowhere to be found.
Agreed. Let me reiterate my first response to your thread.
I’m going to leave this at agree to disagree on this point. I see the appeal, but with how the various mechanics work for Knowledge Points in work orders I do not think it is needed.
Enchanting can get KP from any disenchant. But the probability is based off the quality and level of the item disenchanted.
Epics seem to be 90-95%.
Rares seem to be 50-75%
Greens seem to be 20-35%
Apply that to crafting. To guarantee your weekly KP allocation currently awarded from Patron Orders each player would need to craft:
9 Epics, or
14-19 Rares, or
24-32 Greens.
How many players craft 9 Epics per profession, per week, every week? Some, certainly. Most, doubtful. Which means we press on to blues.
Using BS as our example.
Do you craft a Level 81 rare? Or a level 90 rare? 90 will give the highest possible rate of return. Easiest level 90 rare to craft uses three Copper Bars.
14-19 crafts equals,
42-57 Copper Bars,
or 210-285 Copper Ore.
This is what Blacksmiths would do every week. Miners would be happy I suppose by keeping demand higher.
Does this math make sense given the median requirements to obtain BS weekly KPs from Patron Orders?
Gloaming Alloy and Sterling Alloy require three Copper Bars each. Epic crafts require 16-17 Alloys. That is 48-51 Copper Bars or 240-255 Copper Ore for a single craft.
Your mileage and RNG will vary, but I am seeing one Glimmer of Knowledge awarded by an Epic craft WO every dump.
Ore requirements just went from 210-285 per week to at least ~600-750 per week. With no ability to randomly get a ‘free’ material supplied.
And that does not count Profession Equipment, Stones, and other BS crafted items that use more ore and would drive that weekly average higher to maintain parity with the Patron Order system.
Would you want to farm or purchase an extra 500 ore per week for each BS you have? Would the median player?
Now apply this same logic across every crafting profession. You just tripled, at least, the raw material requirements to earn the same KP every week.
And since doing it this way removes the really rare crafting reagents, does that mean Blizzard moves those into some of the Rare crafts? Do they change some crafts from Rare to Uncommon?
Either change would boost the cost to make the weekly crafts for the weekly KP.
What other changes happen as Blizzard tries to maintain their desired level of difficulty, or effort if you prefer, for crafters to earn their weekly KP?
Have you really thought through the other possibilities? Are they acceptable to you? Are they likely acceptable to the more ‘average’ or ‘median’ player?
Yes, it is annoying when you can’t purchase the recipe yet, or have not learned it. But Moxie is necessary to learn new recipes and purchase things from Renown vendors. Not doing orders for Moxie, at least for a certain amount, is therefore getting in your own way for continued progression. And the bags that often accompany Moxie have some really sweet things that can drop from them.
Yep, annoying. So don’t. Those KP will show up after that order expires. You are delayed by a week, oh well.
Professions, like class builds, have never been balanced. Blizzard tries things, sometimes they succeed, sometimes they fail. But some profession will always have an advantage. Some players will always have an advantage. Enjoy it when it is yours and deal with it when it isn’t.
I am honestly wondering what you did. My JCs took less ore to get over the 50 hump than my Blacksmiths did. Yes, the Glimmering Gemdust sourcing and conversion rate is painfully bad, but it is doable to maintain progression if you don’t waste it.
Yep, three rings (1 rare, 2 Epic) that are Unique-Equip, three necks (1 rare, 2 Epic), the PvP alternatives, and the usual assortment of gems. And like DF and TWW, the Epics and PvP will remain valid for the entire expansion through recrafting.
This is basically the same as the last two expansions, and more than what JC had before DF. So why the problem now?
Yes, sockets in gear have been massively reduced from their hay days. But is that a bad thing overall? For JCs, yes. But is it bad for the game?
You aren’t asking for balance. You are asking for more utility and uses for the JC profession. Not necessarily a bad thing, but acknowledge the difference.
How are you supposed to ever get 500, 600, 700 KP on 2-4 a week because the majority of them are locked behind various walls?
When you can pay 10,000 gold and get enough materials to make 1,000 blues to disenchant, you’re talking about enough KP to almost max the entire profession.
Meanwhile, they want you to spend 5,000g to get a 1KP item with other crafts with some of those.
Enchanting doesn’t care about level of item. Again, the Evercore equipment. Took me about ~100 of them to get 30-ish KP.
So you could literally just make the Lv81 equipment, which I guarantee would be cheaper than some of these ridiculous recipes.
Not saying to completely remove the moxie rewards, it just stinks when all of the “easy” recipes reward moxie instead of KP.
Then next week, it happens again.
Then again.
Then again.
Then again.
3, 4, 5 weeks later you’re 100+ points behind with ZERO hope of catching up on 2-4 “catch up” glimmers per week while the 2 KP items are still impossible to do. You fall further and further and further behind every week.
Yeah, and Tailoring/LW/BS also have the same PvP and the same Epics that will also be relevant through the whole expansion, and their crafts are way easier.
I’m asking for the craft to actually be as useful as the difficulty implies it should be, OR, to lower the difficulty befitting the usefulness of the craft. One of the two.
Either Jewelcrafting should make INSANELY good stuff because of the sheer difficulty, or the difficulty needs knocked down.
I call bull on this.
I can do 5, 10 prospects in a row and just get rocks with 1 glass here, one glass there, and maybe a gem after 10+ prospects.
Meanwhile, BS gets guarnteed skill up crafts, +2 even, just by making 2-6 copper ingots up until like, 30. And after that, you get the Lv90 weapons, slightly more materials, but still isn’t that bad. No RNG, you know exactly what you need, and it’s consistent. No praying you get the right materials out of what you’re doing.
I look at my jewelcrafting list, and the only orange recipes I see are cut gems.
To DO a cut gem, you need the gem, and gem dust, which requires 3 MORE gems. Which means another God-Knows-How-Many prospects (at 5 ore per!) until you get 3 of a matching color.
And in the end?
It’s ONE level out of that cut gem. One. (EDIT: Ok, so it is 2. I loaded him up and looked again. Still though, after prospecting almost 200 ore, I have enough gems to maybe do one or two of these, but that’s if I sacrifice 3 blue-quality gems to get the dust)
Meanwhile, the BS recipes give 2 every time you make a piece of armor or a blue weapon until you get past their level.
EDIT: You could also do alchemy vials… oh wait. It takes a rock and 5 glass. To get 5 glass, you are probably going to prospect 40+ ore to get enough glass to make one recipe of vials. And again: this yields ONE level.
EDIT2: Meh, they finally give you a decent recipe to level on, after you blow ridiculous amounts of materials to get to Lv20. /eyeroll
Still can’t do 9 out of the 11 orders. 3 of them are epics, 3 are blues, and the remaining except for one are way too high level except one you have to buy (but it wants 15 gem dust).
EDIT3: Cute, nice false advertising, Blizz. So I got Lv30 on those rings, and I’m looking through the KP trees and Glamorous Gems claims to “Let you get shavings that can be crushed for gem dust” … and I’m looking through every single node of the tree, and that’s not anywhere in those trees, lol. Glad I didn’t actually click the button and clicked “view full tree” instead.
I.. oh wow. I’m high enough skill to unlock all tabs but haven’t actually put any points in anything other that the prospecting tree so hadn’t seen what you found. how borked is that, that all of our issues with the gemdust is because they based our ability to get it, on an ability they apparently forgot to actually put in and give us?
Solaria is correct here. And you’re correct as well. You’re just talking past each other and not listening to each other. You’re focusing on gemdust. Solaria was probably focusing on getting skill. If you prioritize vials, rings, and necks, you can get to 65 skill fairly easily and cheaply.
You can get from 1-5 with 4 prospects
You can go from 5-20 with sunglass vial (cheap stuff)
You can go from 20-30 with 3-4 casts of gleaming copper band
You can go from 30-40 with 3-4 casts of nocturnal charm
You can go from 40-65 with monologuer’s chalice (glass is cheap)
Otherwise, you’re right, we DO need a lure for Bloomtail Minnow. nods
At the end of week 2 I was sitting at 101 KP on my Blacksmith main. Today, I am at 119 KP and there are still two days to go in week 3. All of my professions have similar weekly progress. Stating we only get 2-4 KP per week is horrid exaggeration and not reflective of reality.
The Inscription Milling to Engineering Recycling to Engineer Crafted Gear to Disenchant fodder is such an outlier I am shocked you are trying to use it as the baseline for your argument.
10 Tranquility Blossom = 12.5 Powder Pigment without any KP.
5 Powder Pigment = 1.3 Evercores with only 10 KP into Recycling (necessary to learn it).
1 Evercore = 1 piece of gear
1 piece of level 81 rare gear = ~50% chance of KP item plus 90% chance of shard.
1 piece of level 90 rare gear = ~75% chance of KP item plus 100% chance of shard.
That is not reflective of any other profession interaction for Midnight, TWW, DF, or prior.
It also only benefits Engineers and Enchanters. Every other profession would still have to make their normal crafts via their normal routes. So you cannot ignore the cost of production for those professions with your idea for them to move to a crafting based KP system instead of the Patron Order based system.
Random is random. Yes, it sucks when it is not going your way. But give it a week or two and you will be sitting around with all of your KPs gained waiting for the next drop of orders because you have nothing else worth doing.
2KP (Glimmers) orders last for eight days. 1KP (Flicker) orders last 24 hours. Both are able to be the reward for any Patron Order, which means the entire catalog of recipes. You may be unlucky right now, but over time they will appear on a recipe you can, and are willing to, fill.
The system is designed for you to catch up over time, not instantly. If you are not catching up, it means you are not putting in a minimal amount of effort on that profession. The basis of measurement is week to week, not day by day. And for most people’s sanity, month to month, even though they are not willing to measure it over that long a period.
JC vs BS
JC
On a Draenai, so acknowledge the +5 JC skill helped.
Prospected 80 Copper, 40 Tin, 40 Silver
Crushed 6 gems
A few crafts to reach 20 skill
Rings and Necks to 45 using another 45 ore
Used the excess glass to reach 50 skill
Total ore requirement: 205
BS:
On two humans and a Blood Elf, so no skill bonus.
51 bars to craft the armor and weapons to reach 50 skill
51 x 5 is 255 Copper Ore plus 6 Silver and 6 Tin for 267 total ore.
Individual experience is just that, individual, hence the question.
Edit: Prospecting 200 ore per week is giving me just enough gems to crush for my gemdust needs as long as I only spend them on Patron Orders that give KP and require a single Glittering Gemdust. My smiths are burning about 180 Copper ore weekly for their Patron Orders using a similar methodology. Will that continue long term? Unknown, but it has worked for two JCs and three BSs for three weeks.
You get the glimmer (2kp) orders in batches every 4 days. It is not random. You get flickers (1kp) every day if you are not caught up. These are catch-up. Additionally you get moxie daily.
It’s Sunday and I got nothing today. Last batch of glimmers I got on Wednesday (4 days ago). I’m 5 points behind…AGAIN because one order I have that does give 2 glimmers is 200 moxie and I don’t have it because I dropped moxie on other recipes, it’s impossible for me to do it.
I’m done. The system is broken.
Giving players patron orders for recipes they can’t learn to get KP is not a good system compared to enchanting which gives you the ability to get KP during the week at your own pace, and without the need for recipes you don’t or can’t learn.
