Do you think raider io acts as a surrogate for server rep?
You can, I choose not to waste time on such nonsense.
For the whole “you will see that person again” …why is it a good thing? The fact i can see somebody again is neither a good or bad thing, it’s just an inevitability in online games. Retail’s no different in this regard, even with it’s cross realms and sharding making those chances rare, it still happens. 
Really? cause Classic, at least for me, is just more or less pushing me towards being a bit civil to other people. Not once while leveling, i ever seen somebody in my group or the groups i join said “lets be friends” by the end of the task. And Even if i did, if they said “lets be friends”, i would politely reject that offer and just tell them i’m only here to get this job done. I wouldn’t imagine they would be foaming at the mouth if i said that and tell the community at large about how much of a huge devil i am, cause i said no. Jar of Straws aside, I would imagine at worst they be a touch disappointed.
Sure, but also I think Classic makes for a good RPG to play though, it’s a shame theirs a bunch of unkilliable advanced NPC’s in the world, taking me out of the immersion. God, why Blizzard have to program them in? 
/sarcasm
Hey, at least i try to be consistent here. Is that such a bad thing? being consistent? 
Their really similar in how they handle grouping, occasionally you’ll run into trouble that you can’t solo, you have to group up. If you want to run higher level content or endgame, group up. It’s the same for both. Difficulty does play a huge role to incentive grouping, i’m not going to deny that.
How does it not promote interaction (Mechagon and Timeless Isles exist by the by) and how does it make your life harder??..
I’m honestly curious on how it makes your life worse. Shouldn’t more people be a good thing?.. i thought you want more people… 
Good luck getting them over first before somebody nukes or tag the rare by the way. Your going to need it.
Yes it does happen on Retail too, Rare’s a Rare. if i see it, i’m gonna kill it, i’m not gonna wait until somebody steals it from me.
So what your saying is… high health = artificial difficulty… 
…didn’t you say Classic’s rares have 10m HP earlier?
Yeah sorry, but I’ve run into my fair share of posterior fedoras in classic as well. I can be fighting a mob right on top of an herb node and someone will come up and harvest it as i’m fighting. Unfortunately shadowmeld doesn’t work in combat in classic so I can’t aggro dump the mob on them. Has happened way to many times to count.
While I won’t deny retail does have its group issues… cause lord knows it does. Classic is not the savior people are making it out to be.
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That is a bad decision in Classic.
#nomogs 
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I disagree. Having a static population of players means there’s a good chance of coming back into contact with players you’ve already interacted with. This means when you’re forming groups, you see players you’ve already run dungeons with and already have some level of connection with them. Compare this to LFG… The 4 other players may as well be NPCs… For all intents and purposes, on my main they ARE NPCs… I don’t need them there, at best they’ll help me clear the dungeon faster, at worst they get to trail behind my wake of destruction.
K, this isn’t a binary thing. I’ve said this repeatedly across multiple threads. It’s not ‘Classic will force you to group and make friends’ or ‘Retail prevents you from seeing other players’ argument I’m making…
I’m simply stating that in classic, the quests and world mobs are sufficiently challenging (read tedious, agravating, boring, w/e adjective you deem appropriate) that grouping with another player makes the experience significantly more manageable. Whether that be from them having healing spells, taking aggro off you, or just simply being able to kill the mobs faster.
In retail… I already murder everything around me… Why in the hell do I need you? So we can… murder it faster? I can already pull every mob in a 60 yard radius and AoE it down with little concern for my character. And you think adding someone else… helps me?
That’s my point. Your encouraged to group in classic, whereas in retail its strictly a ‘only if you really really really want to.’ When you group, there’s a chance for positive interactions that may lead to more. I’m in no way implying that every group is going to result in you finding your soulmate or you BFF… Have I hedged enough for you?
I’m sorry but what? Not even sure what you’re responding to there.
I can count on both hands the number of mobs that I require a group to kill in the world in retail on my main. Most of them are world bosses.
And even when I wasn’t as geared… Grouping in retail is: Click button, pretty much auto-group with 4 randoms, murder mob, leave group. They could put in an ability that was labeled “Call Allies” and have it summon 4 NPCs and achieve the same result.
Whereas in classic, I needed help on a crypt quest in Tirisfal. I called out in general for anyone else on the quest. 3 people responded and we grouped up. They were all over the zone, but we all congregated at the door then went in together and took over the crypt defeating the quest. They were DPSing holding aggro and I was throwing shields and heals. We then said thanks for group and went our separate ways.
One of those scenarios is streamlined to the point that I don’t even see the other players as players… The other is not.
And that’s fine? That’s classic?
I was giving examples using artificial numbers to illustrate my point. The point was that in classic, the mob would immediately have the higher health pool necessitating a group from the onset. While in BfA the mob is tailor made to be soloed, but then magically gains health with the more people attacking it. Thus making the mob suitable for both solo players and groups. Hence solidifying my point… Retail is aimed at a solo player experience with 100% optional multiplayer components. Heck you can pretty easily have a solo experience right up to mythic raiding if your skilled enough through pugs.
Again… I’m not laying this down as black and white. There are shades of grey throughout all of it. But in my view, the old style does encourage player interaction, whereas the new style seems to focus primarily on providing a solo player experience.
Neither are “bad,” they’re just different. Personally… from a MMORPG standpoint, I prefer the old style. That’s fine if you prefer the new style.
The old style has good and bad. Personally I like playing with other players. The frustration comes when you need help with something and no one’s out there responding though. The other night I had to sit there for literally an hour for a group to form for the dark iron elite quests in the Wetlands, and then longer after that for the folks to run over. That can get legitimately tiring.
Well if you say so, i wouldn’t point it out as a positive to the classic only if Retail has this (admittedly uncommon) too.
Well, if you really think about it, you can group up with that person and have them split and kill things that are near you. That way you can get loot faster from different mobs spread apart which in turn, make quests go by faster, and also assist you if you ever run into trouble. (a rare situation in Retail i’l admit)
So yes, Adding somebody else does help you.
I’m more or less poking fun how you keep calling players in retail “NPCs” including yourself and calling classic players actual players. You do realize still have to do player interactions in order to do like raids, Mythic+'s and even out in the world like gen and trade chats, and occasionally in low level instances?
Maybe you meant that as a joke, but with the way you kept on saying it atferwards and before, i’m starting to think you do meant it.
So the only difference i’m getting here is no automation and higher difficulty.
…You’re okay that?
I mean you don’t want to kill it and rather wait for your friends who might be on the other-side of the world or two zones away or something? i just find it highly inefficient especially in a game where mob tagging is strict and it’s highly unlikely that somebody will invite you mid-killing, but you do you i suppose.
I understand that’s supposed to be an example, your still saying High health = Artificial difficulty and shame retail for doing that but Classic is once again excluded from that.
100%? so seeing other players is an option i get to choose? Oh wait, i can make that, it’s called not playing the game. But if i do that, then i won’t be playing the game, meaning i’m also opting out 100% of the solo component, thus 100% of the game.
I’m sorry, but couldn’t you pick a lower number? i would somewhat believe you at 70%, no higher then that, cause saying 100% implies there wouldn’t be a reason to get into raiding or do dungeons, islands, anything to get things, and i would get everything (and i mean 100% everything, not just crap from WQ’s and missions) the game has to offer from just going solo when it’s never the case. You still got to group up with people if you want things like toys or mounts, or get certain questlines done or get a certain thing though RNG, and some of the questlines/professions force you those things like dungeons. I.E group content.
If Classic is forcing you to group up with people then Retail isn’t too far behind on that, and if Retail has things that are optional, the same can be said for Classic.
I’m sorry, but the inconsistency of essentially saying “this is a problem in retail cause X but not in classic even though it’s X” or weirdly excluding Classic from those comparisons and some of the criticism really bothers me. Of coarse it’s the same game, It might have more complex systems into play and the gameplay is complex then today, but essentially, it’s still the same game without 15 years of polish and QoL features.
At least your not calling Retail single-player, cause real single-player games don’t require constant internet connection to play (just for a reason for stupid MTX), so that’s a step up then the usual affair i see. And before anybody rail on me for using my personal definitions, i make that distinction cause most of the single-player games in the “Triple AAAAAAAAAAYY…” industry have been a total write off in terms of being actual single-player and not have forced multiplayer aspects just to sell me stupid MTX gambling and have the game one day be shut down cause of DRM. And if your gonna rail on me for using that distinction then you don’t have the right to complain when the single-player games get taken away from you cause the publisher doesn’t want to support that DRM-riddled game cause you think it’s reasonable for a single-player game to have servers to keep it going.
Not to dig my into sarcastic example here, but i genuinely believe Classic really is a great RPG going solo. Sure it’s tedious, you have to grind for a good chunk of the game to get to level and the mobs are as dangerous as rubbing sandpaper on your face, more annoying then dangerous, but enough for you to pay attention, which is something i enjoyed over then Retail’s cas-mellow difficulty.
And grouping with people and friends does make the experience better, but so is literally any other game. Classic isn’t special in that regard. I could say the same for Fallout 76; It’s better when your in a community or have some friends.
Overwatch; It’s better when your in a community or have some friends.
Dying Light; It’s better when your in a community or have some friends so you can hunt them down in the night as the Night Hunter.
Team Fortress 2; It’s better when your in a community or have some friends.
GTA On - 
- Line and Fortni–
; It’s better when your in a community or have some friends.
GTA SA, the second best game god has ever given to us, only behind GTA VC; It’s better when your in a community or have some friends. (cause it’s 2-player on PS2 and PC with mods)
Pong; It’s better when your in a community or have some friends.
I prefer both actually, Both have their good and bad things about them and i wish Blizzard would actually learn from Classic to improve Retail. I’m glad both options exist and personally wish myself that people would be happy and overjoyed that new WoW Players can experience the very beginning of the game’s lifespan while still having their modern game to play instead of being incredibility divisive or be celebratory when one version of WoW they hate, dies off.
LOL Classic is even worse, watching some of the streamers act like they are “literal gods” every stream is #1 (insert class), Server 1st this or that ( sorry but servers 1st were 15 years ago) its always the absolute worst players who think they are the most elite.
Oh yah.
I actually forgot about that period.
Guess who forum posters scapegoated back then, for what blizzard did?
Vivendi.
Nothing new, under the sun.
Finding a good group makes all the difference. They are out there, just be the change you want to see and you’ll find them. Don’t quit, make wow a better place!
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Well said.