I'm still upset about Kargath in WoD *Spoilers*

Community General Discussion
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The story line of Spires of Arak was one of the few highlights of WoD, for me. The journey of learning about the Talon King, Terokk; discovering the origins of the Arakkoa, and restoring the Talon King’s power within yourself in order to become his avatar of vengeance…

That was actually pretty awesome, not going to lie. Obviously the story of WoD is mostly forgettable (or outright terrible, as is the case with Yrel), but the Talon King and Kargath were two of the highlights during questing.

I think the best moment came near the end of the Spires quest chain, when you have the spirit of the Talon King fighting through you against Kargath Bladefist. You come to find out that the Talon King’s enormous strength and skill can easily wipe out the common Shattered Hand orcs…but then Kargath enters the fray.

There’s a great moment, a surprisingly effective reveal that the Talon King, even after all you’ve gone through to help him regain his strength, isn’t capable of defeating him; in fact, the Talon King says something to the effect of “Even in my prime, I might not have been able to defeat him.”

That’s unbelievable hype. That’s a rare example of post-WotLK buildup and character development done right in WoW. Not only do we understand how powerful Terokk is, but we learn what an unbelievable monster Kargath Bladefist is by that same effect.

We’re primed for a hell of a showdown with Kargath at a later date. I, for one, was pumped beyond belief to see the role he would play in the alternate timeline.

Then, Highmaul. Kargath is encountered in the first room and dies face-down, rear-end-up in the sand as the VERY FIRST BOSS of the VERY FIRST RAID in the expansion with no fanfare at all.

Who in the heck was responsible for that colossal blunder?

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I have to say, that is some enthusiastic use of the spoiler warning.

That whole expansion was a mess. Many storylines went through huge revisions, and massive chunks were cut from the game. It just got mangled. My assumption has always been that they were panicked by the negative reactions to the time travel aspect after it was announced, and they more or less abandoned it before it was even released. With the focus shifted to Legion after it. Just give us the bare minimum of gameplay and enough story to set up the next one.

All these years later I’m still mad about it. I’ve never been more excited for an expansion. The setting and aesthetic are just top notch. And I still enjoy leveling on draenor. Even at the time, people loved the leveling. The first few weeks the forums were hugely positive. Aside from the massive server and connection issues of course.

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I really liked Yrel’s opening story. We saw her start out as this useless adventurer and progress, it was cool. I liked most of the WoD storylines honestly, just wish we saw the netherstorm equivalent and ogre stuff

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It had serious potential to tell an awesome new story, and it was a great way to reintroduce classic characters from WC1 and WC2 to a new audience who probably never knew about them. Kargath probably got the best new aesthetic and story line of all of them, which is why I got so incredibly excited for what his future might hold…

And why I’m still, to this day, disappointed by what actually happened. I remember reading that the fight in Highmaul was just going to be him deciding to test you, and when he was defeated he would leave his fist behind to loot from…then he would reappear later as a “real” boss fight with more serious stakes.

That second encounter, of course, was scrapped in the same way the Shattrath Raid was scrapped, so they changed it to just have him die like an embarrassment in a raid focused on ogres-- even though he had every reason to hate the ogres and refuse to fight for them. He literally died defending ogre territory for no reason.

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You have to hand it to Kargath, he was a pretty well armed boss. But who knows, Blizz just cut to the chase.

The Warlords had be taken out somewhere, at least he made it to raid boss level. Unlike Ner’zhul.

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To be fair, Ner’zhul kind of had his turn already in the main timeline. He was the most significant one of all!

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I thought it all was pretty stupid, Kargath included. How was I supposed to take him seriously when he isn’t even empowered by Mannoroth’s blood and is a lesser version of his dungeon self from BC? All the Warlords and the story concept of the “Iron Horde” in general was one of the worst least thought out premises I’ve ever come across. A Horde not empowered by the Legion expects to conquer Azeroth, aka, a world with still orcs and everything else under the sun to include dragons and demi gods. What a bunch of morons.

Sorry not to beat on your Kargath hype, it’s just that everything to me in WoD was a monstrosity. I didn’t understand why the Iron Horde was meant to be scary straight from the pre patch even, since the losers could barely even make it out the Blasted Lands yet they were somehow a “threat”.

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A big part of it that you might be forgetting is that the Iron Horde is the full strength of the original orcish invasion, aided by advanced engineering technology and foreknowledge of things to come.

The horde and alliance as we know them in today’s world are a fraction of the size and strength they used to be. Constant warfare against one another has dwindled the Alliance and Horde down.

A full, fresh, motivated orcish horde with iron siege weapons and explosives can be quite a threat to a beaten-down world fresh off the heels of yet another threat of global annihilation. The various clans were also unified like never before (with the exception of Gul’dan and his sect) without all the infighting and bickering…until of course Gul’dan took over in a rehash of the original timeline.

It had a very strong start, but it wobbled and collapsed once the raids started coming out.

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Kargath?
My boy Ner’Zhul was a dungeon boss.

But yes, Kargath was done poorly.

The only Warlord portrayed well (outside of Gul’dan of course - because he continued on from WoD) was Blackhand. Blackhand carried the first year and a half of WoD.

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Isn’t Kargath originally intended to run away after defeat in Highmaul? Pretty sure I remember seeing a video like that on YouTube during WoD.

They changed it to us just killing him there and then though.

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Yup, someone mentioned it earlier. Its an interesting and depressing subject looking into all the massive cut content from WoD. It probably could’ve been a great expansion. I’d like some sort of behind the scenes info on the original full scope of the expansion’s life cycle they had in mind.

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I disagree. Especially by the time of WoD. The Alliance had Stormwind, Dalaran, Ironforge, Aire Peak, Teldrassil, Dark Iron(semi official) Gnomes, Theramore, Worgens and Draenei.

Compared to the original Alliance of 7 human Kingdoms, Silvermoon, Ironforge, Gnomeragan and Aere Peak the current Alliance(Of WoD) can easily field the same armies as the original.

Also, unlike the Alliance it had new weapons in its arsenal. Death Knights, new magic(as shown by The warlock Short story) and new capable heroes that have fought things like the Lich King and Deathwing.

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I don’t think the story does a good job of emphasizing just how many people died in events like the Cataclysm, the war against Arthas, Garrosh’s insurrection, etc.

That’s a lot of major, major conflicts and a worldwide upheaval of natural disasters. We as players don’t know how many people are still alive by then, but by the time of BfA the Alliance is in such a sorry state that one of the main gimmicks of the expansion is seeking out new Allied Races to bolster the ranks.

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I agree with you, but you could also say the same about N’Zoth… We saw a cinematic where he uses his Old God power to change the highborne into Naga. And then we fight him and kill him alone with a necklace. :woman_shrugging:

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This I do remember. I think the cinematic with Anduin mentioned them needing to resort to recruiting farmers or something soon.

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Oh I definitely say the same about N’zoth. His initial hype was absurd, but honestly by that time in the game’s story progression I had learned my lesson about hoping for something cool to happen.

Kargath was that lesson. I know never to be excited for a villain in WoW. I will be disappointed.

Remember when we finally got to see Bolvar, the badass who used to solo-kill like 8 elite dragonkin with his bare fists in Stormwind (during classic), in full Lich King regalia, draw a weapon and actually fight?

And then it was a sandbagging fight against Sylvanas and one of the most insulting things ever created?

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I think that was when I became really sad. BTW, I wonder if Azeroth is covered in scourge… remember, there always had to be a Lich King.

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I’m sure it will turn out that the rule no longer applies if the helm of domination is destroyed, or something. Who knows? Blizzard’s lore is inconsistent as can be.

But that’s just another one of those huge wasted opportunities…Remember when the DK class story line in Legion had a bunch of hints that Bolvar was becoming dominated by the evil essence of the helm? And we were wondering what his endgame would be? That was kinda fun.

If they wanted the Shadowlands trailer to be true hype, they should have had Sylvanas doing her anime shtick and then take a massive hammer hit to the temple that knocks her unconscious. That’d get huge excitement. Could have literally made it “Wrath of the Second Lich King” and reuse a bunch of assets from Northrend and I bet its story would have been received better than Shadowlands.

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I think most of us were assuming that he had been taken over by the evilness of the helm, after all, good ole Arthas was. It would have made for a great plot, unlike the one we are dealing with now. There have been so many missed opportunities in the story telling that would have surprised us and would have made us eager for the content to come. However, I’m not really excited this time because I can already guess what is going to happen. : /