?
Prot is the only spec that dominates a role, the rest of the class is pretty mid.
Which is not something negative, that’s just an observation.
Ret is Mid to upper mid (at best) on every single fight in the raid.
Not a meta M+ DPS.
Not particularly present in high ranks of PVP in 3v3, altogether absent from 2v2.
The only metric it dominated is popularity.
Holy is the same as Ret for raid and M+ minus the popularity.
And it is well represented in PVP.
So definitely not “bullshiz”.
Need I really explain? It’s one of the most popular “mele” in the game especially in PvP. It’s defensives were buffed to the moon only a little while ago, and it hits like a truck imo. It’s what I play next to my DH. Ret and DH is all I’ve played, and I nearly always am top damage on my ret. What more could you guys possibly want?
This has no relevance on performance.
All the data we have on it point at it being a mid performer, your anecdotal experience means nothing when we can literally see how much it does compared to other classes and specs.
They were buffed in the rework in DF.
They only got nerfed since, be it intentionally or through more obscure interactions.
What he said.
I swear this has to be reminded repeatedly in these threads. Once again NOBODY is holding spots open in arenas for ret paladins. There’s a massive reason for this. Ret was dominant to the point of being silly after the DF rework so it was tuned back. Fair enough. But do not mistake viable for dominant. It’s solidly mid-pack and you can fun with it but it’s not a top choice.
I see no point in arguing with fools
You didn’t argue anything.
You didn’t make a single legitimate point.
The only thing you said is “They can’t be mid, look how many of them there are”
The defensive point is demonstrably false just by looking at the history of patch notes.
Ret defensive strength came from having access to the new talent Sanctified Plate, having both DP and SoV with a talent that buffed both on top and because the scaling of our stats was so bad we stacked Versatility.
Vers that has additional scaling on SoV.
Since TWW they removed the talent that buffed both DP and SoV, making it so you either have both vanilla or 1 DP at 40% DR.
And the fixing of our scaling stats meant we weren’t stacking vers, where as in DF we easily got to above 25% vers (which meant 12.5% DR), we aren’t ever going toward this ever again, especially not with 18 month expansion cycle.
We got Hero talent that gave some more defensive power that are semi-reliable but everyone got those to varying degrees.
So no, they didn’t buff them recently, you’re wrong.
You see the pain we’re dealing with then? Awesome.
What a speech, did I get under your skin or something?
Oh? If that’s how you want to see it, whatever makes you feel better 
You were asked to elaborate.
You declined claiming self-evidence.
Readily available data shows Ret is mid.
There’s nothing left to tackle.
“BuT I SlAp ThE mEtErs AgAinSt My CloWn FriEnDs” is not probant data. 
Sorry I don’t have much of anything to contribute but good word choice man - first time I’ve learned a new word on the forums
Oh you’re a troll. Got it. Not sure how I didn’t see that before.
Ret is mid, or maybe you’re mid stay mad!
I know as an average ret player you cannot accept the facts, so see it however you want buddy.
This new kidish era of online ragebait is sad.
Nice try. You claim dominance with no arena rating on dh and ret paladin you’ve yet to post on. So your pvp experience is limited to RBG and world pvp. Casual’s have no place calling anyone mediocre. Especially when you’re bottom feeding and talking about dominance.
WoW logs, PVP representation and RaiderIO show Ret is mid.
If all you can do is attack the person talking to you then you lost the argument.
Cya
Guess that means you lost by your logic, oof lol cya! 
Hey whatever makes you feel better, attack my rating and call me a casual lol.
According to him you just lost the argument too