Cata’s atonement was nice. I wish we could go back to that. Disc is too difficult to be having the mana and throughput problems we have. Outside of PI there’s no reason to take us over a HPally or RShaman.
A nice buff I’d like would be to partially bring back cata atonement by at least giving us smart heals on the targets that have the buff. This change would also make Evangelism significantly more viable in raids as competition to Spirit Shell.
Cata atonement was largly a gimik that didn’t work very well. It wasn’t until MoP that atonement became really strong and a primary way disc healed, but that was to good so it was nerfed in WoD and we went back to shield spamming until Legion when we finally started to look far more like we do now.
Honestly this feels like such a hold over from disc pvp during Wrath. We where the worst mana regen healers in arena because we had mana burn, however blizz removed mana burn from our toolkits and never gave a second glance to fixing our poor mana regen that was justified by us having mana burn. Still makes no sense for Priest mana to be so terrible and the only reason I can think of now is they are afraid to make us BC mana gods again where we can stand around and regen more mana than other classes do while drinking.
Barrier is extremely strong and in general we will do more damage than either of those speeding the run, but if you are talking about just purely from a healing perspective than you are correct.
There is no single buff that is going to fix the disaster that is Disc. If they want to do that they either need to return to the drawing board an design the spec from the ground up with atonement in mind, which has never been done hense why it’s so clunky, or they need to just drop it all together and make it an actual healer with decent mana regen and a strong healing toolbox.
Half measures have been accepted for far to long.
Just honestly curious… what content do you participate in that lead you to these opinions?
I mean you’re free to have whatever opinion you want obviously, but it honestly just sounds like parroting some of the other complaints about Disc that are usually made from people who play improperly.
Calling disc a disaster/clunky and need to design it from the ground up isn’t really feedback.
Also disc is “an actual healer”?
Like it’s cool if you just don’t like disc, and by all means if you want to just vent about it fine.
Well played sir…golf clap Well played. Gotta love April 1.
Barrier’s not really a good reason. It’s just CD comparable with the CD’s all the other healers have. In addition, Holy pally’s do more damage than us in Mythics. A ton of them are averaging 4k dps per run while the best of us are capping out at like 1.5k. We’re not even remotely touching their overall damage per run. Even Resto Shaman’s are averaging higher DPS in Mythics than we are. The Logs don’t lie. We were only good for the shadowmeld plays since Shams/Pallies can’t be nelfs and that got nerfed because of MDI. Obviously we’re capable of pushing high keys but there’s a reason there’s more than double the resto shamans and Holy Pallies pushing 20+ keys than us.
I sincerely hope Blizz has some Mythic+ healer balance coming in 9.1.
Gonna go out on a limb and guess you think I’m talking about balance, I’m not, I’m talking about design of the class. Think about how disc works, the tools it has and compare that with other healers, and well basic healing design of every healer to exist in damn near every game, and you will find disc is severly lacking basic tools that hamper it’s flexiblity and create unhealthy play patterns.
I could go into great detail but honestly I’ve already had this discussion…
https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/looking-to-become-a-priest
here and I don’t really care to repeat myself over and over again and feel free to check it out.
TL: DR balanced/OP/UP/functional/etc =/= good design. Disc was OP as hell during Wrath but bubble spamming wasn’t good design, for example and content you participate in this irrelevant when discussion design.
what basic tools is it severely lacking? what is an example of unhealthy play patterns?
you keep using these arbitrary and vague descriptions. it’s a whole lot of words that say basically nothing
I for one think Cata was the pinnacle of disc. We had a great mastery, the option to use both atonement and shielding without sacrificing anything…
But apparently shields are so unbalanceable they moved the spec to a dps-esque healer.
As I said read the link I posted, as it goes into all the detail you want and then some. I’m not repeating it again.
Why do you guys keep letting this mediocre troll keep baiting you kids. Jesus
Who, Martyr? Martyr is a martyr. The first meaning the Urban Dictionary list is this:
1- Person who suffers or dies for a belief, idea or cause.
Martyrofsand is on a mission. Nobody has quite figured out what it is. But that is for another thread.
I wholeheartedly agree with the OP, especially with this point:
Why? Because disc is dog spit for a few reasons.
A. You work super hard–learning damage patterns, planning your cd use ahead, etc. And then you get outhealed and outdpsed by “meta” classes, r shammy and h pala.
B. You run out of mana all the time. Nobody stops for you. Then you scramble to catch up heal, and you chew through a ton mana doing that (this is in your typical garbage pug M+). Then you are back at out of mana.
C. You have to work super hard at gearing.
D. Your damage is dog spit.
E. In raids, you can’t “heal.” If you “heal” you go out of mana. Instead, you can negate mechanics–which isn’t all bad, and actually fun. But really, you press your buttons, then you may as well go afk if you don’t get an innervate.
F. Disc is super fun to play because disc is not like other healers. But that is the catch. That is the trap. You get sucked into playing one for this reason, but then later you have to face up to reality. Mana issues are a nightmare. Pallies and shammies are rudely outdpsing disc, and, both pallies and shammies have a ton more utlity. A pally can rescue a group after a big mistake ez pz. Disc cannot. It is a fight, a battle. And that is only the half of it…
That is the state of disc. These are the problems.
Martyrofsand is the name of one of my favorite MTG trading cards that has the effect of gaining life. I knew I would primarily heal when I rolled this toon so I picked an appropriate name that I liked.
This is news to me. I was unaware of any mission I was on. Far as I knew I was only doing what anyone on this board was doing, IE having discussions and expressing opinions.
You are aware you described a lot of things I touched on in the thread I linked with the only real dispute between us is that I don’t subscribe to disc being hard, and instead describe it as limited and linear because of it’s poor design and limited toolkit? It seems our biggest difference of opinion is I find disc to be easy because of it’s limited tools where you find it hard because of them.
It’s not hard for you. It’s not hard for me. It’s not hard for the majority of people who have experience healing and have played ranged dps. If you boil it down, it is really a hybrid of the two. But in the words of Madskillzz, disc is “complicated.” And you may not agree. I may not agree. But when I was a kid and in high school I remember seeing a test returned to a boy sitting in the row in front of me. He was weird boy, dark and kind of quiet until he got excited. Anyhow, I saw his test score on that test. Okay, it was in my high school physics class, and it was obviously not his cup of tea, but he got 0% on his test. And to be perfectly frank about that class, the teacher literally gave the whole class a take home review before every test all year. And every review was 100% identical to the test on the following day.
For people like this poor boy, who may not be not interested in healing in the first place, and may just want to kick some something out of frustration about life–that is, people who can tie their shoes and can talk to you about anything, and who are not mentally retarded by any means, but may frustrated by simple things like multiplication, disc priest would not be their cup of tea either. It would be too complicated and they would not have the patience to both with learn and master it–let alone min/max it and optimize their UI for it. There are other healers that are simple and easy to play in basic (vs high end) content. There are healer specs you can play and do fine at only healing with a few basic spells and a basic ui that really only tracks only health bars and the need for an occasional dispel.
Capish?
The people you described wouldn’t even hit max level let alone participate in end game. Trying to justify a spec as difficult or complicated by referencing the lowest common denominator is silly.
I respect your opinion, but also respect that of Madskillzz, the guy who makes popular healer videos and plays all of the healers–the guy who calls disc “complicated.” Disc is not complicated for you and me. But for lots of people who play this game very casually, disc would be worth the effort, but a lot do not have the time or patience for it.
If you think Disc is easy to play, maybe easier than most healers, all the more power to you. You could probably find lots of people to agree with you if you went on a campaign to find those people. I agree with the consensus though on this one, and I agree with Madskillzz that disc is complicated. In my case I have played all of the healers for years, and have made every effort to be on top of every aspect of it with a ton of work spent on optimizing my UI, etc. Also, when I first healed a dungeon playing disc it was a complete disaster and compared to other healers, I found the gameplay to be novel and intriguing, but nothing like other healers.
Complicated
composed of elaborately interconnected parts; complex:
complicated apparatus for measuring brain functions.
difficult to analyze, understand, explain, etc.:
a complicated problem.
A spec that limits your interactions and streamlines it’s design isn’t complicated, literally the opposite, it’s very simple. Limited toolboxes are like that.
Last time I got close to playing this game anything beyond a casual level was WoD, when I had every healer at max level, since then if I play it’s specifically with an IRL friend and we mostly just piss around in arena/BGs for the lulz. Yet I have experienced nothing that makes me go “omg disc is so complicated” mostly because if X happens I only have Y to address the issue. This makes it predictable and easy to control, both as the person playing the spec or the player trying to kill the disc, or the tank/DPS being healed by a disc.
Your argument is effectively “if you don’t know what disc is than it’s complicated” and that literally applies to every spec in the game.
What I find disc to be is limited. The toolkit lacks a full toolset because of the overdependence of Atonement while atonement itself is incomplete in execution.
Let me ask, if I want to single target heal someone as disc what are my options? Penance and Smend, PW:S use to be an option but it’s to mana intensive for to little value now so really only rapture makes it worth it. On a paladin? Flash of Light, Holy Light, Holy Shock, Word of Glory, Bestow Faith, and Light of the Martyr. Monk? Soothing mist, Vivify, Eveloping Mist, and Expel Harm. Honestly the closest you get is a Shammy with Riptide, Healing Wave, and Healing Surge but still more than your 1 CD option and your flash heal.
You don’t have choices here to make, you have one option to work with while other healers have a variety of options available, because they have a full kit. This isn’t complicated, this is limited and linear design.
Holy shock and WoG are your only real option. LotM only in an emergency. Everything else is garbage here.
Uh, Expel harm isn’t a single target heal, soothing mist eats mana and is generally a waste, so really just enveloping and vivify.
These aren’t really complex or difficult choices like you’re presenting them. It’s just a disingenuous argument you’re making for the sake of it.
Right I forget Paladins have a habit of ignoring Infusion of Light procs while healing and just stand around healing nothing while Holy Shock is on CD and they don’t have WoG. No the other heals are not garbage this is just flat out silly.
Expel Harm
Rank 3
Expel Harm can be cast while channeling Soothing Mist and additionally heals the Soothing Mist target
Soothing Mist makes both Vivify and Enveloping Mist insta-cast, and also works well with other abilities MWs have. You are the one ignoring the abilities and how the classes work trying to dismiss my argument, and it’s not working out very well for you.
You haven’t played paladin in a while clearly. When HS is on CD, they cast CS to get it off CD. Infusion of light is not utilized at all anymore outside very niche cases where you’re forced out of melee with WoG, HS, Both hammers, etc. down. which shouldn’t ever happen. You can also clip a BoV with HL, but generally BoV isn’t taken anyway.
You haven’t played Monk in a LONG time. They haven’t been casting Soothing Mist since legion.
Checks out I guess. That said if the classes are literally designed in such a way that they have no reason to utilize their full kit that would be a pretty big indicator of bad design.