The GCD changes
Stopping players from switching gear in a dungeon
Masterloot removed
Locking you into a covenant
Many other examples
The thing I see in common with all these is that they change the way the top players are playing the game. The GCD changes stopped the one button all CDs macros. Players were using an AOE set for trash, then swapping to their single target set for bosses. Masterloot allowed targeted gearing in split runs. And covenants are pretty similar to the multiple gear sets. If players could swap freely they would “game” the system by swapping constantly to get an advantage.
It seems logical to assume that either the devs are trying to lessen the gap between top players and casuals, or they hate it when they’re outsmarted by clever players. It’s probably a combination of both. Their solution seems to be to force the top players to play the same way as everyone else by removing all possible options to use their knowledge to gain an advantage.
I’m basiclly just trying to understand what’s actually going on. You can repeat the phrase meaningful choices as often as you want, but anyone with experience in this game knows that there are really no choices. You look at the talents the top players use and pick those.
And yes, if you’re a casual player, we all know you’re alright with being locked in to anything. You don’t need high performance to do transmog and LFR runs, so why would you care? Any bonus you get just makes it go a little faster. There’s no need post that. We know.
Is it possible that if we knew why these decisions were really made, it would be a little easier to swallow?
Because many players seem to have 0 idea how game design or the game team works and act as if they randomly make changes with no thought.
The community wants to min max, the devs just made ultra min maxing for all bosses and m+ no longer possible on a single character, their goal is to remove what the community wants so all your whining is irrelevant because the system is designed to deal with those people.
The change itself is to remove what you want, I am not sure how you are trying to argue with this when clearly they are saying “your way of playing is no longer welcome, we are removing it”. YOu going “dont do that” means nothing, they want to remove that way of playing.
it is quite clear if you listen to the Ion/preach interview, but many players seem to lack the ability to hear or understand beyond repeating memes Preach told them to.
You have been buying into meaningful since you made a decision to go horde instead of alliance or dps instead of tank or heals, blacksmith or jewelcrafter, to mog or not to mog, to raid or not to raid, too main one character over all other characters. And when ever you have wanted to diversify any of your choices there has always been a cost associated with that.
Well guess what that game philosophy hasnt changed since the game launched, maybe your just to old and tired to handle it anymore and should retire.
You shouldn’t be able to be great at everything. WoW is supposed to be a social game and that means introducing systems that make players reliant on each other to make up for what you chose to be of less priority when making these meaningful choices. If you choose a covenant with an ability that reinforces your hypothetical single target specialty then your aoe should suffer.
It’s called opportunity cost and it is not a bad concept to have in the game.
I think what the OP is asking here is why do they want to remove that type of play? As far as I know they have never given a solid reason as to why they no longer want the players to have the ability to min max at that level.
You do realize what you just mentioned is adapting, adapting to the incompetence of the devs. These constant changes aren’t healthy for the game, you don’t rework the wheel because people get better at using it, you build upon its systems to make it better.
People finding new ways to play the game at its peak is the very definition of adapting, since it changes EVERY expansion.
It could be Blizzard just got tired of making encounters balanced (you know what I mean) around the constant interchangeable options always available. Blizzard can giveth and taketh away.
You seem to have no idea how mmorpgs work, in any mmorpg due to the number of skills, passives, combinations and systems there is always the optimal right build for a boss, a dungeon an encounter, this is an inevitable fact of mmoRPGs, perfect balance is never achievable, THIS ISNT OVERWATCH.
Which means that stopping people from changing to most optimal build at all times is a great way to force them to paly the way the way it is MEANT TO BE PLAYED.
Every choice anyone ever makes has opportunity cost. If you choose druid that means the cost of choosing to play druid is not having access to the abilities and utilities of every other class in the game. You choose to be an alchemist and herbalist then you lose the option to be a tailor.
You still have access to these things for group content through other players. This is the point of a social game. You don’t get to be great at everything at all times. If you think you should then you are just proving the “gamers are entitled” crowd right.
It seems you don’t understand what an RPG is, or the very elements that make it as such. The choices we make is essentially art imitating life. But you are still trying to achieve the most optimal way to beat said encounter.
I don’t agree with having to change gear every fight, people do this because of the way they have changed classes over the years, the philosophy changed from bring the player not the class to bring the class not the player, which btw, is a GARBAGE philosophy. And very much antithetical to gameplay. Because that choice is taken away when that philosophy is in play, it doesn’t matter how well you play if your class is trash.
Encounter is trivialized by meta slaves stacking broken classes and specs because encounters are not designed around optimal play, they are designed around balanced comps, not 14 st gods with the most optimal ST build.
Therefore locking people into them also makes encounters far more challenging and the way they are meant to be.
Ion the lead dev is a game designer and sorry but I take his word of what an RPG is a lot more seriously than some random forum goer, especailly when Ion is doing exactly what I like as a person who likes the stat playing aspect of RP
You keep talking and acting like min/maxing is no longer possible in Shadowlands. It still very much is. It’s not possible to get rid of min/maxing, no matter what you do. The only way you can come close to getting rid of min/maxing is by removing all choice completely - That’d mean fixed, unchangeable stats, no stats on gear, no talents, no covenants, no soulbinds, no legendaries, no specs, none of it. Even then, unless you just gave everyone a single button to press with no other abilities, you wouldn’t be able to get rid of min/maxing.
Once Shadowlands releases and we start getting to 60, we will inevitably see min/maxers figure out what covenants, talent combinations, soulbinds, and legendaries are the “best” numbers-wise. And at that point, even if the best is only the best by 0.01%, we’ll see the best for each class and spec become the dominant choices.