There’s no concrete definition, same as ‘casual’ itself.
I’ve feel I see way more folks ‘bad at the game’ over in Classic versions rather than Retail, for sure.
Ok.
And I have seen people play casually and get AOTCs and m+ portals
All done comfortably. No white knuckling it, no holding my breath in anticipation, no sitting on the edge of my seat. Entirely relaxed and enjoyed. Like all video games ive played in my life
I am your definition of casual
You can also buy those, yeah.
That’s not what I said or had anything to do with the topic.
With a passion I absolutely HATE when people around here unironically tell you to “Do easier content” or “Do M+ and don’t worry about the timer if you don’t like it”.
Like sure the timer is crap and I can ignore it, but that means I will basically forever be doing M2’s, and random M2’s at that. The core of M+ is bad, but we still want to push ourselves, it’s just not designed to fit in with the core of what WoW stands for.
Maybe they can do two separate M+ designs, one for M11 and under where death counters are a thing, and there is no lust, and there is no fort or tyrannical, just slightly higher scaled mobs or something.
Then pop over to M12 where they want to be ultra competitive, call it the eSports Mythic Dungeons where people get timers back, they get lust back, they get more battle res or something.
Many players below M12 just want to have fun and see M12 as their absolute limit, but forcing the M12+ meta onto the rest of us is partly what makes M+ terrible for many.
A casual a buy a carry for things that are beyond their scope of skill, so you can’t really define through the content someone has cleared.
Lots of people bought those fire owl mounts.
You just can’t concretely point to someone and call them a casual, it’s a whole spectrum of player behaviors. Everyone’s definition of it varies.
But regardless, housing is gonna be cool for those that don’t touch PvE or PvP or any of the other endgame pillars.
good thing it’s entirely optional!
And there it is, “DoN’T dO m+ if YoU Don’T LiKE iT!”
The thing is we do enjoy dungeons, we enjoy pushing to a certain extent, there is just something not quite right about how M+ is that does not fit in with PVP, raiding, overworld and Delves.
You are here doing that.
You are casual gating.
You are sitting here just explaining why a person isn’t casual enough. Like they have some CasualIO and you are just looking to disqualify them.
“Oh you play too many hours a week. What that hour threshold is? I won’t say”
“Oh you did too difficult of content. Is difficulty subjective? Yes. Will I say where the cut off is? No. Will I agree that it’s different for everyone? Yes. But I will definitely state you are kut?”
You agree many things are in a spectrum. But you are very unwilling to accept that yourself.
None of the 4 things youve mentioned fits in with any of the others.
Theyre all their own separate end game pillars for a reason
Yes. You want it even easier to get BIS rewards.
We know.
1 Like
I just hate how it killed long dungeon crawls, that was my favorite PvE in the game, and it’s gone because of M+, dungeons are all short these days, etc.
I just play other games for PvE instead, much happier, and there’s even achievements for not ending the mission early and lasting as long as possible against endless mobs, more my style.
And? What of it, lol? Does calling someone a casual or not change anything?
No? Okay then.
My only point I’m trying to drill here is that housing is something for all to appreciate, that’s it.
So, that’s not actually a counter to the idea of just not participating. I don’t participate in PVP, raiding, or overworld stuff beyond questing content. I quite like that I can keep them separated neatly and join in when I want on my own accord.
This sounds more like the complaint of somewhat who wants what M+ offers, but doesn’t want to do actually overcome the challenges it presents.
I would LOVE some of the very cool gladiator mogs and enchants – guess what? I won’t ever be getting them because I am terrible at PvP. But instead of crapping on pvp or it’s participants, I give them my kudos for being successful at something I’m not successful at. The same applies for raiding.
At the end of the day, there is LOTS of non- M+ content out there, and the game is still very much designed that the rewards from one area of gameplay are mostly not required for another area of game play. I don’t NEED pvp gear or raid gear or delve gear to succeed at M+.
Granted, “succeed” is pretty subjective, so you can make your own standards for success.
I get people don’t like the speedy nature of M+, but ultimately it’s about precision gameplay and mastery of class/spec toolkit and mastery of dungeon mechanics. This is like whining that Formula 1 racing requires people to drive way over the common speed limits – yeah, that’s kinda sorta part of the game.
1 Like
That was dead when i joined the game in 2007
I dont appreciate it. Im not knocking those who do, but i find it a waste of dev resources personally
Everything’s a waste of dev resources to another that doesn’t touch that same pillar.
I love WoW’s PvP and it’s pretty much the only thing that keeps me around still, but this is a mostly-PvE game, and tons of people argue PvP is a waste.
Only ~5% of players regularly get those rated pvp mounts each season.
I appreciate pet-battles, and other features that folks don’t engage with either lol.
Your entire premise is that casuals finally got something they can do.
My response is that they can see 99.9999% of the content in the game because it’s all designed to be casually seen.
You then continued to dismiss any casual accomplishments by declaring they are not casual enough for your rulings. Or imply they only accomplished anything by paying for it.
Just because you don’t appreciate m+ or raiding doesn’t mean other casuals don’t.
And I definitely expect a housing tie in to m+, raiding, pvp
I never said this, I’ve never once said this, I’ve always said I would be happy to spend the entire season working towards my BiS even if that meant something like getting currencies that are capped to ensure people cannot get BiS fast, or limit how much gear and iLVL we can get so the season lasts a season.
In fact I’ve rarely ever seen anyone here who flat out says they just want their BiS faster. In some seasons you don’t ever even get your BiS gear since it’s basically all RNG anyway.
It’s only people like you who assume we want changes to make it easier to get gear, many players play for multiple reasons, you would be hard pressed to find enough people who only play for nothing but gear.
Raiding: Can stop between bosses, discuss, plan, enjoy each other’s company, take breaks and go slow with no downsides apart from losing time. You still get the same chance at rewards no matter how many times you attempt to kill a boss or how long it takes you to do it.
PVP: Can spend an infinite amount of time in BG’s, rated or not, and still walk out with the same end result, in fact, the longer you spend the more kills you chance getting and the higher the reward you get from each BG.
And arena, even though it’s sub 5 minutes per round, the fact you only need such a short time in there means you can stop and do anything you want between matches, no rushing, no stress, just join when your group is ready, fight for a couple of minutes, and stop whenever.
Overworld is the same, you go do a world quest, you take a break, you farm some mobs for currency to buy mounts, you take another break, you can do it in a relaxed manner. No rushing, no stress, no issues about missing out on something because someone left or you went over time.
And delves fits in perfectly here, slower, less pulls, can do solo, take breaks as needed, come back before you AFK logout and continue your run without worrying about anything.
M+ however has that timer hanging over your head, you have to run them fast if you want to keep progressing, you have to at least time some dungeons to keep your key level high enough to satisfy what content you are wanting to do, you can’t stop randomly and take breaks and all that because people will leave, keys will deplete down to an M2 and then you are never going to progress.
Yeh, 4/5 of the current end game content people do are similar in how you can approach them, with M+ you need a specific group composition, i.e. a bres, a lust, 2-3 ranged players, a pre-planned route, and when you are in you must go fast enough to ensure you can still finish and get something out of it.
2 Likes
More likely the shop, but yeah. I just want a place for all my old stuff.
Maybe if you consider lower difficulties like LFR to be ‘the same content’ as higher difficulties, then yeah there’s no reason to go further because you’ve already done it once.
I ‘declared’ nothing I said about casuals as fact, and you keep ignoring that.
Your change accomplishes nothing except make it easier
I didn’t say faster. I said easier.
Not having to play well makes it easier.
Unless you be fine with increasing the difficulty for max rewards? Say make 15s the new 10s?