L Take. Play different content then.
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Itâs only a required part of the game if you play it. You only need mythic dungeons to get mythic dungeons gear so you can do more mythic dungeons to get more mythic dungeon gear.
I can do heroic raids and get hero gear there and great vault hero gear and see the content, have a challenge, and feel character progression and eventually overpower all the other content.
Mythic dungeons just arenât necessary unless you are doing mythic content and thatâs an incredibly niche part of the game for the vast majority of players. Itâs like the battle pet system. You can do it if you enjoy it, but it isnât necessary that you do, to enjoy any other aspect of the game. If you donât do it, you are only prevented from doing it more, which you already donât like. You can safely ignore battle pets if you donât like it and pretend itâs not even part of the game and the only thing that suffers is your ability to do the thing you donât want to do. Same for mythic dungeons.
I have never set foot in a mythic dungeon because I have heard the horror stories you mentioned. I donât want the pressure to never screw up, or the responsibility to never brick someone elseâs key, or the frenetic pace creating adrenaline and anxiety. So I donât do it, and I donât miss it because itâs irrelevant content for me
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⌠thatâs where it starts though. It doesnât take very much arguing to argue dirt to the ground.
Right? Like I cannot believe this thread has so much interaction when it can just be summed up to, if you want a casual experience in a casual pace then play that way? Like plenty of guilds out there for it and plenty of guilds for pushing keys and mythic raiding. Changing a whole system that a larger portion of the community enjoys just because a small portion wants to play the game a different way when yhey could already play it that way makes no sense.
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Ok hear me out. Mythic+ is not that bad, the best itâs ever been.
Weâve got lenient timers from DF Fated Season, you can on most dungeons and key levels die over 20 times and still time it if your group is that dawg.
Weâve got condensed key levels, so reaching M+ milestones is quicker if youâre willing to put in the effort, which isnât so much skill as it is perseverence to learn how to adapt your playstyle to higher keys and learn the dungeons themselves.
Weâve got M+ thatâs doable out the gate in quest gear, ofc, its much easier to get into and bang out keys in M+ if you host your own key and invite higher ilvl players - the âsurround yourself with people who are better than youâ approach.
Weâve got affixes that can HELP players for once to make the dungeons easier at high keys and opening up access for more casual players to reach KSM/KSH.
If we get a death limit instead of a timer, it wont change the environment of M+ too much to make it unplayable. Edit- Additional commentary and predictions: Griefers will still brick keys if things donât go their way or something that isnt up to their expectation. Toxic players will still question your reason for existing if you screw up mechanics.
v
Thee absence of a timer will probably both encourage some groups to take more risks without punishment as well as cause some groups to take things at a snailâs pace. But for any group that knows their worth (which is most groups, and maybe some overestimates their worth) will be clearing M+ on a death counter normally as if there was a timer because as it stands, youâre there for 20-30 minutes guaranteed and people got stuff to do.
The only thing we DONâT have, is consistent loot reward for your effort, they fixed this in BfA SLIGHTLY with Titan Residuum and I donât understand why we canât bang out a bunch of keys and buy gear from a vendor with a currency. Two loot drops for a 5 man group sucks.
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I agree with the majority of your post here, but do think the statement that a death count instead of a timer wonât change the environment very much wouldnât really hold true. Sure, if Blizzard didnât touch the mechanical difficulty of dungeons, then I would agree with this, seeing as in most cases the reason groups canât time a key is because of too many deaths. But I think this is a completely unrealistic expectation.
With a timer, there is an implicit level of difficulty that exists from teams having to weigh risk versus reward. Should you double pull? Do you round 4 packs up at the start and lust? Do you pull the boss when your healer is sitting at 40% mana (assuming it is usually possible for a healer to be successful with 40% mana on that boss)? When you only have so much time to get through a dungeon, and beating the timer is important for the group, the team will ultimately add difficulty themselves with these calculated risks as they view those risks as the most likely way for the group to achieve its goals.
If you remove that timer and teams are free to take as much time as they want, that self-imposed difficulty is removed. Saving 30 seconds by double pulling is never going to be worth an added 10% chance of deaths. This is going to noticeably reduce the perceived difficulty of the dungeon. Itâs unrealistic to expect Blizzard to not make changes to either bring some of that difficulty back or push rewards upward to levels where the increased scaling will make up for that lost difficulty for the same reward. And then since multi-tank and/or multi-healer groups would become possible, I suspect all bosses and possibly even some trash would gain enrage timers to encourage teams to stick with a 1 tank/1 healer/3 DPS (or 2 DPS + 1 aug) composition.
Would it be unplayable? Probably not; at the end of the day, Blizzard driving all players out of their popular game modes is a terrible business strategy. But it would unquestionably be a drastically different experience. An experience where the soft failure of not timing yet still getting many of the rewards no longer exists, and failure genuinely means an inability to complete the content at all. Do you think players would truly enjoy the keys where they previously reached the end untimed becoming keys they canât finish due to the group being unable to overcome a higher mechanical challenge? I am highly skeptical of this.
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Weekly Cache back then is horrendous. You donât have any option on your Weekly Cache Loot. It means you only need 1 M+ run per week. Becoz your chances of getting awesome cache loot is the same (which is garbage) regardless if you do 999 M+ runs in a week. You get loot somewhere else⌠like Raid. You spam Islands Expedition to get more Titan Residuums, run Masked Vision Runs, and play as many non-competitive activities to get high chance to get the desired Corruption Power.
In current TWW and from DF, we spam M+ to get more chances from the Vault.
I prefer spamming M+ as I am an M+ lover. In BFA, you donât spam M+. One run per week is enough. You want to run more M+ but you were not getting much.
The only issue with TWW M+ is it started so hard. M+8 is inaccessible to many. But eventually, it would be accessible when players get more gear. Add the Siren Isle Ring at awesome high level, people would eventually access M+8 and above. Of course, many beginners got trauma from M+ early in the Season, they may not return to M+ again which is expected.
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If you think this game would have more players than it does now without mythic+ in the game then youâre completely wrong.
Mythic+ is one of the reasons the game remains so populated at this point. It does need some improvements, and could be better than it is, but for the most part itâs fine.
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I donât think your experience is as relevant as you seem to think it is. You donât get CE in the last expansion until the content has been nerfed several times and your team is pushing near max ilvl lol.
Even in long content lulls your team takes 5 months average to beat a raid tier. You didnât get Raz until <4 weeks before it was over. Lol. And whatâs this nonsense about âyour everyday raid guild has 15 slots from m+â you mean waiting on vault for 15 weeks to get Myth track pieces?
You cry so much Brewa. Itâs unreal.
If you extend, raid loot plummets to zero.
If crests are only from raid, you canât really craft.
I donât know about 99%, but probably closer to the tune of 50%.
And thatâs CE world last.
Extending forâŚchecks calendar 14 weeks? X to doubt
My guild cleared dragon soul 10 every saturday from 7 to 9
starting week one? or on farm?
Sure you did.
I like mythic plus but I donât like the people sometimes when I pug. Nobody is happy.
You literally cant just win.
It has to be perfect even tho⌠the people who expect it are not. Lol
By saying this then you are agreeing with me that whether death counter or timer, it wonât change the environment of M+ too much.
The biggest hurdle with M+ is people that lack dungeon knowledge or fail to adapt their playstyle to their appropriately prog key level so they can push. People that die fail to do dungeon mechanics properly such as cc, interrupts, stops, using defensives when required, etc, not because a timer pushes groups.
While I agree it was horrendous, youâre arguing the wrong topic with me. I was referring to Titan Residuum that you got from Weekly Cache that allowed you to purchase gear. With the current system you still only get one loot choice a week with nothing from dungeon drops if youâre unlucky. There is less loot from dungeons overall in M+ than there was in BfA, and thereâs no vendor to replace the Titan Residuum system for several expansions, thatâs the issue.
Yes it will. People die because they arenât capable of handling the pulls at the level of risk needed to properly execute them. Remove the reason to add risk and theyâll just stop taking those risks, making it significantly easier and changing how the content is played.
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So remove players who donât do their research on dungeons or their class when pushing keys?
Iâve stated before in my wall of text that there are lenient timers in which you can in most dungeons and key levels die over 20 times and still time it. I just did a +5 Stonevault where we only died 5 times and timed it with about 10 minutes to spare, no stress, no problems beyond a few standing in stupid situations.
The timer isnât the issue since since Dragonflight Fated season, Blizzard started giving more time in keys, and in TWW Season 1, there is an affix called Challengerâs Peril that gives you 90 extra seconds on the timer!
The drawback to that affix is if you die, itâs triple the time loss, so donât die. Whether on a death counter or timer, donât die. How do you not die? By doing your research and getting in there on low keys to get firsthand experience.
If you feel that you need to take risks on a lenient timer, thatâs a you problem.
I mean yes. Most peopleâs negative reactions to the timer are a them problem.
You right, simply a skill and knowledge issue. M+ isnât that hard, though I will say that Blizz intentionally likes to clutter the screen with so many spell effects especially from players it can make it hard to see stuff. Or the plague of tanks in pubs that overpull at the start of dungeons without consulting the group, leading to early deaths and worse, bricking a key.
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