If WOD didn’t make things 20 man, think my 10 man guild would still be around.
Then m+ was thing, and more grinding was a thing too.
I quit the game during Nighthold when they expanded artifacts… didn’t want to grind for more power just because it existed. In like the .5 patch.
Killing 10-man raiding because he didn’t personally see why anyone would do it, was one of his many crimes, yes.
People were playing 7 days a week since vanilla though. Raiding every day. It just got old to people. Just like everything else does
Thought it was because it was too hard to balance. (Which is fair.) But why make the new size 20 man when 25 would’ve been better. Just a needless compromise.
And now with so many specs, 25 man staying, could’ve been better all along.
No, it isn’t.
That’s what happens when you make something competitive that shouldn’t be. M+ has created a community of unrealistic expectations at all levels, primarily in the example of even regular (not even heroic) dungeon runs during leveling becoming speed-fests. Too many people are under the impression the game should now be played with the hammer down, which leads to content being rushed through and creating an artificial “content drought”, at least in the minds of the fools rushing through everything.
Further, M+ has created an atmosphere where the meta is all that matters. Yes, before M+ raid groups would want specific classes in specific encounters because certain abilities made things smoother for initial progression. However, after clearing a raid, guilds and groups were able to understand how to pull off these encounters in a non-meta group. With M+, there is no respite. You either run exactly what is deemed ideal, or you don’t go, unless you can’t piece together your own group.
Get rid of M+ and you eliminate a huge chunk of the toxicity within this game. It won’t change over night, but with time, people will learn to play the game to enjoy it and not just to beat a timer and show you know the fastest way through something.
I mean. All of your complaints seem to be covered by m+.
What is an alternative to doing small scale content that isnt dungeons?
Yeah, 10 man raiding was one of the reasons I got into raiding in MoP. I really can’t vibe with anything higher than that.
Shall I tell you a secret?
Vanilla was a bad game.
Nobody needed to play 7 days a week to do that stuff, WoW just a lot of peoples’ first video game, and they were bad at it. Phenomenally so.
For people who came to WoW from other games… vanilla was crap.
They never even tried. A bright toddler could balance 10 vs 25.
I’d like to know as well.
M+ is 5 player content, delves is 1-5 player content. What more do people want? Lol
I started in TBC but managing 40 ppl in a raid sounds like a nightmare in vanilla.
Uhm, you only get that mount via Archeology, and even then an Alchemist has to make it.
I came to WoW from Dark Age of Camelot, where 75+ player raids were common along with 600-player PvP battles (200 per side, 3 sides fighting each other at once).
WoW is a small-scale game written with terrible code.
It was not that hard for either of my Vanilla guilds. People showed up, did their thing, and rejoiced when we won, and we were sad but not ripping ourselves apart for mistakes.
Have you seen how tiny DAoC code is now, and it still runs great!!
Alas, I haven’t looked at DAoC in years. Good to hear it’s still running.
I wonder if that wedding is still going on in Tir Na Nog, 25 years later…
How did computers not combust? I think WOW can’t even handle 300.
I believe it is, and relic raids still happen… go figure!
I have a fond memory of something fairly early on. The damn Albs outnumbered Mids & Hibs heavily on our server, and had all 6 relic keeps.
In order to overcome the huge numbers disparity, we made a plan…
We spread the word that as many Mids as possible should make their way out to the relic keep, in small groups, throughout the weekend… and then log out, there. So their position would remain there.
And then at 2 AM, on the same night, everyone would log in at once, and we would launch a surprise attack on the Albs before they could muster a defense.
And this was long before discord. We had to do it by word of mouth. But it worked - and nobody tipped off the Albs!
Of course, Albion being Albion, it still turned into a battle, as they flooded the zone with players.
And then when things looked bad, the leader of one of the many guilds involved started yelling “Hibs! HIBS!”
And I turned around and saw dozens and dozens of Hibernian players emerging FROM THE SEA - and hitting the Alb reinforcements from behind.
It was glorious.
My disdain for WoW PvP is largely that it just cannot offer up moments like that. Never could.
removing them would be more anti-wow. there’s literally nothing meaningful to do outside of the 2 raid nights without m+
you think petbattles and worldexploration gonna hold the people in? idk about that lol
Maybe… do something other than play WoW?