I'm glad RDF isnt in the game. Thank you for hearing my voice Blizzard

[Nyseine-whitemane]

@Donkaa-herod

Try again, but with punctuation and some amount of coherence please

Edited for readability

[Bumjockey-arugal]

@Wafectus-deviate-delight

The problem with your whole concept of classic here is that it is ambiguous and can be interpreted differently by anymore.

Which completely breaks down your entire logic to begin with.

My personal position on classic or the market logic for Blizzard? Because the latter is what I am talking about and it isn’t ambiguous at all. It’s a very clear cut set of reasons for classic existing, and a clear reason to differentiate it from retail.

@Piezuri-benediction

You think using a hose to put out a house fire is logical?

So even you agree we discussed scale, but the reasoning remains the same.

@Piezuri-benediction

It was a major feature of Wrath because 3.3 was part of Wrath. What a strange suggestion, that because it wasn’t in day 1, it can’t be considered a major feature. It’s also one of the things people remember most from Wrath because of the impact it had on the playerbase as a whole - whether negative or positive.

It was a major system in 3.3 but to say that (as we are here) it ought to be in wrath on launch because it was a major feature is disingenuous. I agree that it has its time and place as a big part of wrath alongside ICC but as someone who played through it live I have to disagree that something at the tail end of the expansion changing a group finding tool was a major feature. But this bleeds into the subjective - and arguments based on that are not good arguments.

[Nyseine-whitemane]

@Johnvaljean-grobbulus

Ruin the game? yeah RDF (lack of) is going to ruin the game.

why not both? im sure rdf will ruin the game for some, and the lack thereof will ruin it for others. Im pretty sure this is a dilemma blizzard attempted to tackle. do you know if they even gave the reasoning behind it? and its appropriateness as we move through the expansions? It seems like they made the calculation that the lack of rdf would ruin it for you personally, and that is in fact an okay thing.

[Wafectus-deviate-delight]

@Bumjockey-arugal

My personal position on classic or the market logic for Blizzard? Because the latter is what I am talking about and it isn’t ambiguous at all. It’s a very clear cut set of reasons for classic existing, and a clear reason to differentiate it from retail.

LFD has existed for some time now. Every time you tell me to go play retail, do you mean Cata, WoD, MoP, Legion? They all had it.

Or do you specifically mean only the most current version of retail?

In that case, just tell me to go play Shadowlands.

Don’t tell me to go play retail, when you are purposely taking it out of context to suit your narrative.

[Piezuri-benediction]

@Bumjockey-arugal

It was a major system in 3.3 but to say that (as we are here) it ought to be in wrath on launch because it was a major feature is disingenuous.

I didn’t say that. I want Blizzard to definitively say RDF will be in Wrath, and I’d like them to release it when we need it (probably during a long content lull in late P2). I’d also want it changed, though. I think the teleport and cross-realm (for non-dead realms) should be removed, the teleport should be in for Azeroth though.

[Nyseine-whitemane]

@Wafectus-deviate-delight

Don’t tell me to go play retail, when you are purposely taking it out of context to suit your narrative.

i think its more than that. retail since vanilla has aimed to be more QOL. to be more casual. Every time there was a competitor with some QOL feature wow would steal it and iterate on it. Even borrowed power was an iteration on FFXIV’s artifact armor at the beginning.

That is very much in the “spirit of retail.”

Classic on the other hand is quite the opposite, its creating a niche game that doesnt exist any more because of the constant pushing forward of QOL. the spirit of retail created the market for classic in a lot of ways.

[Nyseine-whitemane]

@Piezuri-benediction

I want Blizzard to definitively say RDF will be in Wrath

Personally im very glad they havent

[Bumjockey-arugal]

@Wafectus-deviate-delight

LFD has existed for some time now. Every time you tell me to go play retail, do you mean Cata, WoD, MoP, Legion? They all had it.

Or do you specifically mean only the most current version of retail?

In that case, just tell me to go play Shadowlands.

Don’t tell me to go play retail, when you are purposely taking it out of context to suit your narrative.

Just retail, the alternate version of WoW that’s live that has the system that you want.

And to reiterate I never just ran around saying “go play retail.” It was a response to disingenuous argument to simply ignore the feature if it’s added. It wasn’t directed at anyone - but if you’re going to make that argument (which in fairness I don’t believe you specifically did) then I have no problems using your own logic against you.

@Piezuri-benediction

I didn’t say that. I want Blizzard to definitively say RDF will be in Wrath, and I’d like them to release it when we need it (probably during a long content lull in late P2). I’d also want it changed, though. I think the teleport and cross-realm (for non-dead realms) should be removed, the teleport should be in for Azeroth though.

Then we actually pretty much agree on everything other than the timing, which I just want to see in 3.3 once Classic really begins to bleed into retails game design with badge catch up gear being big.

[Piezuri-benediction]

@Nyseine-whitemane

Even borrowed power was an iteration on FFXIV’s artifact armor at the beginning.

I really wish they’d adopted it properly, since AF gear isn’t integral to the gameplay and is more of a side thing for players to work on.

[Piezuri-benediction]

@Bumjockey-arugal

Then we actually pretty much agree on everything other than the timing, which I just want to see in 3.3 once Classic really begins to bleed into retails game design with badge catch up gear being big.

Emblem catch up gear is big from the start, though. It’s intentionally done so that the previous tier can be mostly ignored in favour of gearing through primarily emblems, especially once they add the dungeons (in 3.2 and 3.3).

[Nyseine-whitemane]

@Bumjockey-arugal

3.3 once Classic really begins to bleed into retails game design with badge catch up gear being big.

i dont mind seeing RDF in 3.3 but thats because i largely wont be doing dungeons if it does come in. it will however mean i wont be playing cata classic or whatever comes after if it exists, and i feel that might have something to do with the decision, since Ion brought up cata to asmongold.

When i say I, its assuming that theres a playerbase coinciding with my personal opinion large enough for blizzard to recognize it as significant,i dont believe blizz is developing for me personally, and i have no data to back up how large that playerbase might be, i figured i should put this disclaimer here.

[Nyseine-whitemane]

@Piezuri-benediction

I really wish they’d adopted it properly, since AF gear isn’t integral to the gameplay and is more of a side thing for players to work on.

I absolutely agree with you on this.

[Bumjockey-arugal]

As I recall in 3.3 it was the most egregious with how powerful that gear was. Live I was able to get my shaman in a bunch of badge tier gear and it was so strong it edged out some of the ICC 25 drops.

@Nyseine-whitemane

i dont mind seeing RDF in 3.3 but thats because i largely wont be doing dungeons if it does come in. it will however mean i wont be playing cata classic or whatever comes after if it exists, and i feel that might have something to do with the decision, since Ion brought up cata to asmongold.

Same really. If it must be in I would prefer it happen during the later patches so that we can move along from classic going into cata.

[Wafectus-deviate-delight]

@Bumjockey-arugal

Just retail, the alternate version of WoW that’s live that has the system that you want.

No thanks.

Like Donk said, a simple feature that retail might have that I like, isn’t enough to outweigh a multitude of features I dislike…which is why I won’t touch retail with a 10-foot clown pole.

By contrast, with Lich King, a new feature I dislike, which is no LFD (which is now a deviation from the original), isn’t enough to outweigh all the other things about Lich I do like.

Now…

Are you going to use the same bad logic to start the process for removing LFR from Cata?

[Nyseine-whitemane]

@Wafectus-deviate-delight

a simple feature that retail might have that I like, isn’t enough to outweigh a multitude of features I dislike…which is why I won’t touch retail with a 10-foot clown pole.

This is why it would be nice to find a solution that brought them in line with eachother as reasonable alternatives. Ive absolutely felt this way about retail in the past before.

[Wafectus-deviate-delight]

@Nyseine-whitemane

This is why it would be nice to find a solution that brought them in line with eachother as reasonable alternatives. Ive absolutely felt this way about retail in the past before.

We had it.

It was called #nochanges. That way everyone knew what to expect.

#somechanges only paved the way for the mutilation of classic and its counterparts.

[Click-akama]

@Nyseine-whitemane

Guild wars 2 is a completely different game once they introduced their iteration of physics based mounts. People in their forums dont say “lawl get off your bunny and do the jumping puzzle then 5head”

Only because you mentioned it I just want to say that I played GW1 and if they had designed GW2 a little differently I would’ve enjoyed playing that too. I feel there were game choices that could’ve been made to make it feel a little bit better as a game. But then again, what game doesn’t.

[Nyseine-whitemane]

@Wafectus-deviate-delight

Are you going to use the same bad logic to start the process for removing LFR from Cata?

oh i HOPE so. Id use the same logic to ask them to cut the ilvl gap between ulduar toc and icc to be more in line with naxx->toc and to make toc 5 man and the three icrecrown dungeons drop ilvl gear equal to base heroics. and ALSO get rid of LFR. and also cut the talent lock in system from cata. and use full trees moving forward into mop.

[Nyseine-whitemane]

@Click-akama

. I feel there were game choices that could’ve been made to make it feel a little bit better as a game. But then again, what game doesn’t.

yeah not having the trinity hurt me on that game badly. I rather like the “no gear progression only expansion and QOL” thing they have going tho. tbf tho, i love playing with my brother, and he hates that, so neither of us play that game. You win some ya lose some.

[Reverscowboy-benediction]

Thank you for speaking up we dont want RDF in this game. Retail and wow Forum people think their opinion is above others and if you disagree they insult you and deny basic logic how over time this was part of wows demise. # no to RDF