Why is the kyrian cov ability in our class talent tree?
Why is shadow dance?
Why are people telling me I have to take some sort of ambush vanish build in outlaw?
I really think you need to dumb rogue down to ret paladin level of play. Rogue is now least play class in game.
I get that you don’t want rogue to dominate in pvp since stealth breaks rules but isn’t that what pvp talents are for?
Ive been leveling all my old mains and started gearing them but I can’t even begin to want to gear my rogue with how bad it feels to play each sub. So no I’m just farming SL raid mogs with it.
So damn sad. Been with rogue fro almost 20 years and I’ve never seen it this bad.
Er, wut? Rogue is still fun. I have combat at 70 and I’m leveling this one subtlety. What level/spec is your rogue? If you’re leveling, there -are- some scaling issues, and without your entire kit, there are times when you feel sluggish because there isn’t anything left to press, and you’re left waiting for energy to regen, or cooldowns. Otherwise, I don’t know what to say.
You’re welcome to try out my build as a “stepping stone” to the Bushlaw builds people are pushing. In my opinion, which is obviously the superior superlative in my solipsistic world view, Find Weakness is over-rated. Dispatch is the future.
The key I’ve found is that 5 combo points is the “maximum”. The sixth and seventh are roulette placeholders to prevent overcapping. And the entire heart of the build is dumping combo points as quickly as you can get them for the cooldown reset.
Once we see BTE doubling the bonus from the T2 set, the build will have more value in resetting BTE as quickly as possible. And you don’t have to figure out how bad Shadow Dance feels to play.
Until we are redesigned it will remain a circus stun bot that does support damage.
Relying on reprimand to get a bing bing wahoo mario collecting a coin isn’t cool.
We are tuned low because of everything revolving around cool downs only. Other classes complain and get their way regarding our tuning which isn’t cool. No rogue wants to be a be on stun support, sorry that people trinket sap in 2024. That is not our problem.
If something is doing 40% of someone’s life, by all means tune that bad boy ONCE people have gear instead of scarecrow tactics when you have jokers running around in
full base level pvp gear.
zero honor / conquest gear getting dunked in the woods for turning on war mode.
goofing around on some alt or some bum who multiclass and hasn’t done jack to defend themself or use a single cd.
Core abilities MUST pull their weight instead of over reliance on CDs.
Other classes are gaining more tools which is good for them (not a complaint) but then we get punished or tuned around team play while they continue to do full damage? That is biased and uncool.
Rogue talents need to provide choices, even if they are the “wrong ones” as nerds like to pressure others into thinking. The rogue must make a PERSONAL choice.
Rogues are very dynamic and this current iteration of Subtlety has a great duality but does NOT need to push anymore shadow or goofy CDs to be tuned off of. That isn’t how balance works at all, we have a budge of X%, they will responsibly tune the entire kit to fit that stuff. The rogues who continually push for more CD’s and silly stuff forgot our core then get ticked when tuning sucks because they abused whatever which is NOT what we are supposed to be doing.
Really angered by fair weather rogues hopping on, abusing what they can then saying our class “is dead lol”. No it is not, I will always be here rain or shine as Subtlety. Represent our kind well fellow rogues regardless of what path you take. Be wary of saboteurs, griefers, and zealots who push their agendas.
Yeah thats my biggest gripes right now its dependance on hambush to do damage apparently?
How much do I lost though not using bushlaw builds? I just want to play outlaw like I play ret paladin. Build, spend, wait for cds (or cd), press cd and repeeat.
I don’t like the current version of sin. I agree with what you say in the first post if you’re referring to sin, lots of things to track, and I’m not the biggest fan of echoing reprimand. Imho sin feels like a lot of work to do kinda so so damage.
I do hope they fix sins aoe and as I’ve suggested before lowering IC to 30 second cd so it would be available for packs sooner would be one suggestion.
In regards to stealth don’t hunters have something like it now?
In my own testing, a no RTB, no HO build was about 10-20% under.
I was outperforming standard HO with my current build by about 5%, but I think that’s because I just couldn’t quite get my head around Shadow Dance juggling to maximize FW window.
Because Dance and Ambush will only apply one target FW at a time, I’m pretty confident that Shadow Dance will underperform in AoE consistently, They both use the same key skills but I feel like Dispatch is pushing 10% more damage (which is around 3.5% raw DPS).
Once you look at PvP, Shadow Dance is the only way to play because it locks down entire teams. That’s also why I believe it needs removed since it’s the only viable option for every rogue to become a stunbot instead of play the game. (Or be part of a rework to a positioning build, where subtle changes in position changes your damage profile… or at the very least be a PvP talent instead when Smoke Bomb is returned as general rogue utility.)
TLDR; If you don’t play how Blizzard dictates, you will be under. Luckily, you can make a mutt build how Blizzard says to play and how you actually want to play without losing everything.
This build you can hit CDs and focus on rapid spend to reset CDs. It’s designed more like old ret paladin, where if you didn’t have wings rolling, your damage was “meh”. Stagger Ad Rush and Dreadblade for the highest effect.
I totally agree. Button bloat is a real issue. My outlaw rogue has like 12 buttons and rotation? What rotation its literally just wake a mole cooldown abilities.
I recommend going sub. Shadow blades, symbol of death and cold blood are all macrod to other abilities and 90% of the spec is just learning to use 8 abilities during the 8 second shadow dance. Outside that its just spamming backstab (now called gloomblade) , eviscerate while maintaining slice and dice and rupture
I feel similarly. This character has existed aince vanilla. Hes basically been my favorite Alt. Ive seen the class change a lot over the years but revisiting to see how its looking in dragonflight has been pretty dissapointing.
Playing this guy now the first thing I thought to myself is “Why do i have so many damn buttons to worry about?” The ramp up time and the amount of things you need to juggle to maximize damage is ludicrous.
Im super casual these days so its not a huge deal. I may not even get the xpac. Undecided. This will be the first time im considering shelving my rogue though either way.
I’ve played a rogue for nearly 18 years on and off…That said, rogue just isn’t the same anymore.
I remember this one time I found an afk ret paladin. I got in position. I looked around. I made sure no one else was nearby. I examined him for a good minute to make sure he was actually afk. I got close behind him. I Garroted him, bled him up real good. Starting building my combo points, Ruptured him up, got my combo points back up and hit him with a big Envenom…got him to like 50% health, decided to go in for the kill. So I get my combo points back up to max…Kidney that dude, hit all my cds, start putting in work. I kid you not, this dude returned from afk, keyboard-turned, bubbled, healed to full, and within two globals I was laying there dead. It was the worst day of my wow life.
Maybe you can help me as I used to play a rogue ages ago.
Came back to my rogue and I like sub but where is the healing???
Seriously, compared to other melee classes, the healing is a complete joke. I am thinking I am missing a talent or something else.
I have the extra heal when I vanish talent and I use the 25% heal over xyz time, but these just cannot compete to a warrior, ret, DK or enh shammy, plus I feel really squishy.
Need some help here. It might be I am in the zone of bad gear/level as at 65, the downtime in between fights is pretty high as a rogue and forget pulling a pack or trying to solo a 3+ man elite…
Sure, I can help. For one sub is not very easy to level with. You might have a much easier time leveling as outlaw or even sin.
I am a Sin main but from what I remember, sub also has crimson vial in addition to what you mentioned. You also have the option of recuperator on the Rogue side of talents as an option. Aside from that, yes, Rogues have very weak healing compared to other class/specs. It’s always been harder to level and play over other classes.
I completely understand if you don’t want to go outlaw to make it easier. But all I can suggest is use the best gear you can, grab food (maybe ask a kind mage to give you a few stacks) and use the above-mentioned healing. It’s not great, but it’s what we got lol. With multiple mobs you have to make use of your CC’s and such. Outlaw does well with 2-4 targets because of blade flurry where sub/sin need more targets to excel.
I found outlaw wasn’t as strong as sub when I was leveling with heirlooms. Now that I’m 65 and have daggers, I think it is sort of hard to change without the weapons. I’ll take a look again at my talents, and see about healing. I wish healing pots weren’t 5min cd for the ones you get from dirt piles. I have so many and using them on leveling chars is nice but 5min CD is really just an oh no situation and not a burn to the next mob.
What poison should I be using? I see I can only use one, but they really suck compared to what I remember poisons doing…or maybe I used to play Sin? It’s been years since I played, especially the rogue. I think Cata or MoP was the last time I really played rogue a lot.
Thanks for the idea on mage food. I’ll definitely do that!
