I just wanted to say that I’m a huge fan of this idea. I think it solves a lot of problems at once, which is amazing for such a simple solution.
It makes ICC harder without changing anything about ICC.
It keeps Ulduar hard mode gear relevant for longer during ToC.
It limits the power of the human racial in PvP (by lowering the item level on Deaths Choice/Death’s Verdict and Deathbringer’s Will, among other ToC/ICC trinkets).
And it helps prevent classes that scale well (warriors, rogues, and mages) from completely dominating the damage meters towards the end of the game. They will still top the charts with 264 ilvl gear, rather than 277.
I actually played WotLK during this era, and I distinctly remember that absolutely no one touched Ulduar after ToC released. You couldn’t find people to fill an Ulduar raid if you tried. I thought it was weird at the time (though WoW eventually ended up going in that direction, where each patch invalidates the patch before it, this was strange for someone who played classic/TBC/WotLK up to that point).
Overall a really simple change that provides a ton of positive benefits and no downsides. I’m all for it.
They’re changing ICC gear… the raid itself is unchanged.
Again, I think changing the gear is a good thing. Warrior/mage/rogue all scale so well that they completely outclass hunters and warlocks in ilvl 277 gear. Those classes will still be at the top in ilvl 264 gear, but the gap between them and hunters/warlocks will be smaller. This is good for game balance, and it also helps keep the human racial in check.
Stay squish in ToC and ICC will be an indirect nerf to classes that scale insanely well in late tier phases like warriors. This is a change the community should be able to get behind 100%. Because f warriors. Lmao
Warlocks completely outshine warriors and mages prior to those high gear levels. The payoff for being lower dps in the early patches of LK is being at the top in the end patches of LK.
Now, Warlocks are the top dps…the entire expansion? Thats fair?
The patch won’t be invalidated when ToC drops. People will still return to Ulduar for HM Gear and Valanyr. What none of us want is to be obligated to run Ulduar HM during ICC since its gear is still relevant. All it does is cause massive raider burnout, this was a huge problem in TBC.
I actually played WotLK when it was live and I am telling you, Ulduar was completely invalidated. It might as well have not existed from the day that ToC dropped. I distinctly remember thinking how weird that was because that had never happened before in WoW. Classic, TBC, and even early WotLK all had relevant items from earlier raids.
In original WotLK, ToC 10 normal mode gear (the easiest mode of an already easy raid) was superior to Ulduar 25-man hard mode gear. This change would fix that.
As for Val’anyr: it takes 3-4 months of weekly raids to build and only 1 healer gets the item. Good luck dragging 24 other people who have nothing to gain through that raid every week for 4 months.
yeah it also makes players feel like they have to do 3 raids a week which was their reasoning for taking away separate raid lockouts for ToC. These clowns are all over the place. I personally do not like multiple raids viable in a tier as i do not have the time to raid 4 days a week.
You don’t have to run 4 raids a week though. ToC25 normal mode gear would still be better than Ulduar hard mode gear, with the exception of a few select items. You could ignore Ulduar and focus on ToC and still clear all content. And the 25 ToC heroic items would still blow Ulduar items out of the water.
Realistically, someone who raids the entirety of Ulduar will probably not go back there once ToC opens, even with the changes. But alts and new players will. Alts and new players didn’t touch Ulduar after ToC release in original WotLK - this is the main problem that’s being fixed.
Have you read their blue post? they litteraly stated that is their entire goal is to keep players raiding ulduar (hard mode gear viable still) while ToC is out. similar to how classic and tbc people still raided molten core and Kara.
Have you actually played WotLK and looked at the gear?
Seems like you’re reading a blue post and reacting to words you don’t understand, rather than looking at the game and understanding the situation.
Most Ulduar 25 gear is 226 ilvl. There are a few drops at 232 ilvl, and then hard modes have a handful of 239 ilvl items.
ToC 25 normal mode gear (plus badge gear) was ilvl 245 originally. Minus 13 item levels would make it 232 ilvl, which is still superior to the vast majority of all Ulduar gear. ToC 25 hard mode gear was ilvl 258 originally. Minus 13 item levels would be ilvl 245, which means your ToC 25 hard mode gear is still superior to even the best items in Ulduar.
You will not need to continue running Ulduar unless you really want to. It’s a good thing if the hard mode Ulduar gear that you worked hard for remains relevant while you’re collecting ToC hard mode gear. It’s good that Ulduar gear remains relevant for alts, rather than simply going into ToC 10 normal mode and getting better gear for a fraction of the effort of doing Ulduar 25 with hard modes.
No I have not played wraith of the lich king, and i wont get to because they are basically redesigning the entire expansion. I have however been playing classic since launch and if the last two expansion have taught me anything, its that if the gear is even remotely close in IL it will be required by raid leaders for you to go on those Ulduar runs in order for you to attend the ToC runs. Especially during early phases of ToC when other raid members have not completed their gear sets from ulduar yet. So my statement is still true, you will still be required to raid 4 days a week. I personally do not have the time for that and would have much preferred guilds not wanting to run ulduar anymore after ToC release.
Strange, because I played retail WOTLK from start to finish and my guild was still doing Ulduar hardmodes up until ICC released. We got everything except 0 light on 25man.
Just because your guild was sweaty nolifers that tryharded through the content doesn’t mean everyone else was too.
You got it backwards. Doing Ulduar hard modes in retail WotLK was for sweaty no lifers. Casuals just ran normal mode ToC instead because it rewarded better gear for a fraction of the effort.
With the proposed changes, the rewards from Ulduar 25-man hard modes will not be replaced by normal mode ToC gear. This is a good thing, given that Ulduar 25-man hard modes are significantly harder than normal mode ToC.