Il'gynoth And A Cosmic Insurgency

Hi everyone,

I’d like to discuss Il’gynoth’s whispers and how some of them may be speaking to a meta-narrative rather than the single, self-contained, story arcs that often come up when answers to Il’gynoth’s prophecies are discussed. Afterwards, I’d ask a question to you all, are these prophecies more likely to be about a larger story arc, or narrative, that transcends expansions, or do we think they are tied to expansion-specific events?

Il’gynoth has two distinct sets of whispers depending on where you encounter it – The Emerald Dream and Nya’lotha. While I think some of the ED prophecies are potentially illuminating, I would like to focus on Nya’lotha, especially as many others have already done a lot of good work on this, not to mention wowhead’s comprehensive review, which I will build off of.

In particular, I’d like to look at Il’gynoth’s prophecies that most readily appear to be about an ongoing conflict between the cosmic forces:

  • The cunning ones kneel before six masters, but serve only one.

  • The golden one claims a vacant throne. The crown of light will bring only darkness.

  • The vassal of life disguises treachery. Beware the eyes of green.

Also for this discussion, I’d like to use some whispers from N’zoth. While N’zoth has many whispers, there are two related to Il’gynoth’s whispers mentioned above:

  • Six seats at the high table. Six mouths that hunger. One will consume all others.
  • The Light has struck a bargain with the enemy of all.

Thesis

I believe these whispers warn that Death and its agents seek to destroy the other cosmic forces and, to that end, have been manipulating events for a very, very long time by infiltrating the other planes of existence.

Two of the aforementioned whispers provide the warning’s general precis, “The cunning ones kneel before six masters, but serve only one.” and “Six seats at the high table. Six mouths that hunger. One will consume all others.”

While arguments could be made that these are about two separate events, I think they’re two warnings of the same threat, the cunning forces of death.

These “cunning ones”, mentioned in the first whisper, are the thal’kituun–unseen guests–or Nathrezim. The most immediate piece of evidence that comes to mind, and perhaps the best at the moment for this, is probably the ‘Enemy Infiltration - Preface’ Report.

The report documents the systematic, and concurrent, infiltration of five of the six cosmic forces and their associated planes: Order, Void, Light, Life, and Disorder. The only plane not infiltrated is also the plane where the report itself is found–Death.

The Report’s Core Summary:

In many ways, the titans will be the easiest to manipulate. Their singular goal is to impose structure upon everything they see. Show them a force that opposes their drive for Order, and they will be consumed by their urge to eradicate it. Their pantheon, so seemingly united in purpose, is vulnerable to fracturing.

The void lords all but welcome us with open arms. They are so preoccupied with their thousand truths that they ignore the lies we sow in their very midst. I believe we can leverage their vast reach to position them as a foil against our other rivals. We remain wary, though. Since they are observant of multiple outcomes, it is conceivable they could anticipate our coming.

Similar to the titans, the naaru and their keepers are singular in purpose. Their adherence to a linear path is an obvious shortcoming. They savor nothing more than being proved right, so if they believe they have converted one of us to their precious Light, they will trust that agent implicitly.

The adherents to Life are the most insidious of opponents, perhaps because their nature is so antithetical to our own. Still, we learned much from observing the link between their plane and Ardenweald, and we have high confidence that a vulnerability has been identified. Our operative has already gained the trust of her target.

And as previously discussed, our position within the plane of Disorder is proceeding flawlessly. Consuming fel energy is not a pleasant process, but a necessary one. The deception you have architected will bear fruit in the ages to come.

The other whispers describe two potential attack vectors in the future, the means by which these insurgent forces may threaten Azeroth: the forces of Light and Life.

Light - The two relevant whispers are:

“The Light has struck a bargain with the enemy of all.” and “The golden one claims a vacant throne. The crown of light will bring only darkness.”

Here, I believe both whispers are ultimately warning of Lothraxion and the means by which he could harm Azeroth, with the first whisper focused on him directly and the second, indirectly. As we know from the Revendreth report, the Nathrezim have probably infiltrated the light, after all:

“. . .[T]he naaru and their keepers are singular in purpose. . .They savor nothing more than being proved right, so if they believe they have converted one of us to their precious Light, they will trust that agent implicitly.”

Lothraxion fits both the Nathrezim report’s account and the claims in N’zoth’s whisper, as the Light has made a deal with Lothraxion wherein he aids them in return for, something–perhaps redemption.

The second whisper, the one from Il’gynoth, is likely referring to Stormwind’s current king regent, Turalyon. Based on what I have read, Turalyon has immense faith in the Light and its path, which would also translate into faith in Lothraxion, his trustworthy High Commander. If Lothraxion is a Nathrezim agent, then it stands to reason that Turalyon is probably vulnerable to manipulation by the Nathrezim, who work on the behalf of Death. While we don’t know how the prophesied “darkness” will manifest, or its consequent effect on Azeroth, we know it’s probably coming because all of the pieces are still on the board.

Life - The last of Il’gynoth’s whispers mentioned above, “The vassal of life disguises treachery. Beware the eyes of green,” is probably referring to the same threat that we gain insight into via the Nathrezim report:

“The adherents to Life are the most insidious of opponents. . .Still. . .we have high confidence that a vulnerability has been identified. Our operative has already gained the trust of her target.”

I don’t think we’ve met this particular operative yet. Many folks on these forums have claimed it is probably Kivarr, but that doesn’t quite fit. While Kivarr certainly has a connection to nature–ostensibly as a vassal of life–and green eyes, her consistency with the report of the operative begin to fall apart after that. Additionally, Kivarr’s current whereabouts and activities, as we know so far, would be inconsistent with the Nathrezim’s apparent goals and methods of action.

The Nathrezim’s report on infiltrating the plane of Life suggests that, while they’ve used Ardenweald’s connection to this plane to study its vulnerabilities, their target is within the plane of Life itself. Which would make sense, anyone of power in Ardenweald, including the Winter Queen, is still a being of death, not Life, making it unlikely any being in Ardenweald would be able to provide the opportunity for the Nathrezim to disrupt the plane of Life.

Therefore target is probably within the Gardens of Life, a realm within, or another name for, the plane of Life. It’s existence is briefly mentioned in a quest in Maldraxxus when the speaker is discussing extra-dimensional agents, “. . . Emissaries of the Light, minions of the Void , meddlers from the Gardens of Life…”

Hopefully we’ll get to meet beings from this other realm in this expansion, but as of yet, I don’t think we’ve encountered this particular threat. Likewise, I’m also not sure if the threat is from the operative itself, or the being from the plane of Life who, like Turalyon, is being possibly manipulated by a Nathrezim agent.

Assuming all of this is right, I come back to my original question. Does the fact that these prophecies speak to a larger story arc, spread across more than a single expansion, indicate that the others may as well? Is it likely that the others speak to these meta-events, rather than events caused by, and involving, only the plans and motives of lesser beings, cosmically speaking?

What do you all think?

Bhagya

P.S. I attempted to put hyperlinks to my references, but I don’t have the forum permissions yet, probably because I haven’t posted in a very long time.

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Which quest exactly is it that describes the “Gardens of Life”? I’d be curious to see / do it

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https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/gardens-of-life/833970

Since the Jailer backstabbed Denathrius and the Void Lords see the Dreadlords as the enemy the Dreadlords will probably attempt to use the Gardens of Life or the Forces of the Light to restore him!

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  1. Generally yes
  2. I actually think the 6 seats at the high table may be the First Ones. The six masters however are the primal forces.
  3. I’ve had a pet theory for a while that Ilgynoth was a Dreadlord that grafted himself onto Nzoth. It’s weird that he has wings and looks almost like a gargoyle in his “true form” on Nyalotha.
  4. I think Denathrius was originally a Dreadlord whose soul was turned into the Sire. I also think the Hooded Ones statue may actually be the Dreadlords because of this. I’m in bed so I’ll explain in the morning.
  5. Similarly I have no idea who is saying Kivarr is the vassal. That makes no sense. Whoever is the servant of the Dreadlords has to have gained the Winter Queens intimate trust already, and has to have done so long ago such that their task had been completed before Sargeras was corrupted. I also don’t think the Eyes of Green and the Vassal are the same person. I think the vassal is none other than Lady Moonberry. Again, will explain in the morning.

6 seats at the high table in my mind implies the cosmic forces. Arcane (order), Fel (disorder), light, void, life, death, and from a meta perspective each force seemingly seeks to be the only force in the galaxy. Buuut that’s my interpretation.

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I think Erriden’s onto something.

I wouldn’t be shocked if those cosmic powers could be represented as a first one and we have four right in front of us that fit the bill.

It’s something I’ve definitely mused on and had sort of an epiphany when listening to N’zoth voice lines again, (great great voice imo) the original assumption had been old gods battling to consume Azeroth but that only worked if you counted G’huun a manufactured old god, and xalatathv who’s origin is actually unknown still.

So the only six things left are the cosmic powers that be.

Yeah, that’s what I was thinking too. I do like Baalsamael’s theory that they may be a reference to six First Ones though.

@Talgor: https://www.wowhead.com/quest=57284/blade-of-blades

Could be it but I don’t see why the ones who created reality would want to consume all others though.

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I wouldn’t be surprised if Il’gynoth was a dreadlord, aren’t they referred to as a pimple or pustule at some point?

I’d be interested to hear more about your Hooded Ones theory. I was thinking of the Denathrius as more of Revendreth’s world soul and the father of the Dreadlords, given the language he uses during Renathal’s rebellion and the Spires of Ascension beta-bug where the Archon’s death triggers a statement that can be read as implying that all life in Bastion now perish as a result of her death, suggesting each of the Eternal Ones’ lives are connected to their realms.

I’m just not sure why the Winter Queen would be the proper target for exploiting the plane of Life’s vulnerabilities. We haven’t seen other cosmic beings used to exploit their opposites, have we? The Winter Queen’s disdain for Ysera, who is almost certainly a creature of the plane of Life’s cosmic power, suggests she does not have a close relationship with her counterpart–her sister–in the Gardens of Life. That weak relationship makes her a very unlikely exploitative target, based on my understanding of how insurgencies exploit targets to gain access and influence.

Interesting quote from xala’tath in regards to Il’gynoth “It appears the prison of N’zoth is not as strong as it once was. What you see is a tiny growth of the behemoth that may yet consume your world.” I am not convinced though that Il is a dreadlord, in enemy infiltration it says that the void is placated by their truths but may already know what the dreadlords are planning, hence how nzoth called the SLs with “The veil. . . Wanes, his crown will show you the way.”

Hmm, so if not a dreadlord, then perhaps Il’gynoth is an agent of the larger forces of Death, which would be a behemoth that is attempting to consume Azeroth.

I’m not sure if the void knows, necessarily, what path the dreadlords have chosen; as Lotus-Walker said, the void can’t actually see all of destiny.

The void sees all possibilities so their ability to discern what actually will transpire is kind of muddled, but no Il’gynoth would not be a servant of death. The void is a realm of hunger and all its creatures desire to consume and corrupt.

Ahh right right, Xala’tath said the prison isn’t as strong as it was, implying a leak of void power, not an infiltration of the void. Good point!

Yup! Plus Il’gynoth makes a comment “flesh is his gift, he is your true creator.” Death was never apart of the curse of flesh.

Yeah good point. Also, I’m not sure that I see the Void as necessarily a corrupting force, or even a hungering force, as those terms have a negative connotation. The Void came to being in the pockets of the universe without the Light, and they can only exist without the Light. So, naturally, they would like to exist in as many places as they can, so of course they want to destroy the light. The other cosmic forces are, likewise, also obstacles to the Void’s expansion and therefore also have to go.

What confuses me is why dreadlords, if they are agents of Death, want to destabilize the other realms. What is there end game? All death? Death can’t exist without Life, it also doesn’t seem to have a recognizable, finite, end goal. The void would simply consume everything. What would Death’s ideal world be?

Pretty sure Il’gynoth is not a Dreadlord, pretty much because he’s too eager to blab about their plans (albeit in riddles). That speaks more to what the game has already said he is - a fragment of N’zoth that’s trying to corrupt those to whom it whispers it’s thousands of ‘truths’. The sire of the dreadlord’s knew that the void presented a unique vulnerability for their plans because they can see all possible outcomes and II’gynoth’s just an example of that.

If Lady Moonberry were a Dreadlord’ though, that would be pretty interesting.

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The void has been described as “ever hungering” and the void lord goals are to enter the material universe and consume everything, granted they can enter our universe albeit for a brief time cause they cannot maintain their forms for too long. Hence the old god plan to corrupt the world soul of Azeroth.

Gives credence to N’zoth saying “only I can save this world. . . From what is. . . To come.”

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I mean, yeah, the void have been described as ever hungering, but that’s still a value judgment. Most of what we read about the void is through the lens of the Titans and others from the plane of Order. I think it’s important to keep the the narrator’s biases in view when learning stuff for lore, because there is no real neutral narrator, even Blizzard, who often is telling us with a bias towards the Titans, if only in sharing similar value judgments.

Do you think N’zoth was saying that he is the only way to prevent the Void from consuming Azeroth? Because if the Old Gods corrupt her, then she will serve the Void instead of being a target.