So maybe someone can explain what is so objectively wrong with DH that they need extra attention, other than personal opinions. To be sure, I have a few pet peeves with the DH trees. I think probably everybody has a few things they would like to change about the class/classes they play, but that doesn’t actually mean the class is broken and in need of as much attention as other classes. And sure, we all like new toys, but we have Hero talents, and many of the ones I’ve tried so far are awesome new toys (and some, a bit more ‘meh,’ but I digress…).
I just don’t think that “these other classes got way more changes than us” is a valid argument, unless something is really in need of addressing (again, beyond personal opinion).
Did you just ignore the entire feedback threads or are you not aware of them? I’ll summarize for you. I’ll ignore discussing the abundance of dead spec talents for havoc and focus on the hero talents.
Aldrachi reaver is mechanically clunky and just doesn’t work with havoc. Collecting souls doesn’t work for havoc, you have no way of tracking souls and no way of deterministically spawning them. They also can spawn out of reach.
In raid it’s not even worth trying to play any of the movement talents because trying to line up 5 different dps windows is impossible and any GCD you don’t use pressing chaos strike is a GCD that didn’t spawn a soul.
In m+ it’s a bit better but only because all of your damage is immo aura except for the fact that playing furious throws with aldrachi feels horrible and it doesn’t even interact with the buffed glaive at all
Fel scarred is at least playable in that you don’t have to fully commit to playing the hero talent mini game but unfortunately it doesn’t do anything. It doesn’t add any flavor and it might as well just say “your abilities do 5% more damage”
If you want a more detailed explanation for each problem go to the feedback threads
This is largely a product of tuning, which is going to happen multiple times before it really matters. Also the concept of ‘dead talents’ is a whole multifaceted conversation, so ignoring the issue is fine.
This one I totally agree on. When people talk about ‘changes,’ though, I mostly assume that the OP’s "changes going into 11.0 means the core class/trees, since the hero talents are entirely new and they are still iterating on class trees in Beta right now; I do agree that more changes should come for hero trees (that and bug fixes; I certainly submitted my fair share today). I’m not exactly excited about the prospect of Aldrachi Reaver launching as is for Havoc.
This is all opinion. There are plenty of people who don’t want extra complexity and who hero talents that are essentially passive are going to appeal to and that’s fine. As someone that plays all classes I’m perfectly fine with some being more and some being less interactive.
Now earlier, you suggested that specific changes “made the class worse:” are you referring to Aldrachi Reaver? To balance issues? You sort of made that comment in the context of 10.2, though, so I’m curious as to what you think actually made DH’s worse.
Why do non DH mains care about the DH forum? Aldrachi has a 19GCD opener BEFORE your cast meta and that’s just going your souls spawn and are close by. Fel-Scarred is doing very poor dmg and therec are no new animations for anything, so the class plays clunkier and gives no reason to want to play it in TWW, it’s so bad in switching to hunter myself, I’m tired of playing a class that gets no attention and now the ONLY reason one will be bright is chaos brand, and if no changes go through, DH numbers have already plummeted and it’ll only get worse! Good luck! Maybe the class eventually will get a dev that cares!
I mean I average mostly orange parses in every raid on Heroic. My guild didn’t push Mythic this expansion but I like to think I know how to play the class. I’ve also been playing it since the closed friends and family alpha of Legion. I push 3k early every season then coast because its pointless reward wise.
It is a well known fact that VDH has threat issues at the start of a pull, especially in higher keys, because the burst from DPS is so high over what VDH can do. As I said, once threat is established then it’s not really a problem but it definitely is at the start of an encounter.
Thank you Priest bro. You understand our plight. There is very little feedback presented for DH, not even an “I hear you” like Shamans got before their rework. We just want some recognition and I know Blizzard has a history of not responding to these types of posts but hopefully I can help raise some more voices to speak up because at this point its getting concerning.
I love DH, I will play it even if its bad, it just fits my playstyle as a tank and as a melee dps. I’ve mained it since Legion alpha. I want to look forward to playing it in TWW not feeling left out as everyone else gets more attention and detail added to their gameplay.
Aldrachi Reaver is bad for Havoc and uninspiring for Vengeance. It just feels overly complex with almost no payoff. Fel Scarred has some nice ideas but then drops the ball on both tuning and vfx. I just have a feeling we’re going to be at a point where we are forced to play AR because FS will be under tuned until they decide to fix it halfway through the expansion. To be clear, both Hero trees need work.
Illuminated Sigils should be reworked, as it stands its pretty much pointless. Same goes for Fel Barrage on the Havoc side. Both of which are capstone talents!
I mean the real reason is because they don’t want to be exposed for how little experience they have with said class so they hide on their alts just to troll.
Sadly, the build just went through as RC which means there won’t be any more large reworks/changes. As predicted, DH is only getting nerfs and 2 lackluster/problematic hero trees.
That’s the complete opener, basically. The ordering of vengeful retreat fel rush and meta in the middle there can vary depending on who you ask, but this is roughly the opener right now for that build
I’ve raided Mythic in other expansions, just didn’t push it this expansion. Mythic raiding isn’t a test of personal skills, its more of a test based on coordination with others. Mage Tower would be a better argument. Also, you’re posting on an alt who has no experience with anything. Good job earning that bronze tho.
and? you can parse high on raid by sleeping or spamming torch. i really dont understand why your performance in raid matters. you can be a great player and still lack fundamental knowledge about the spec. im not asking for your resume friend, im just dispelling some misconceptions about the spec you probably didnt know about.
this is also false, simply because again people arnt playing around the cruddy threat bug (taunting mobs or tg then sigil will generate maximum threat again) veng has so much front loaded burst damage with ed and other tools like SPB that its almost impossbile to steal aggro from a vdh main, unless your playing some sort of weird build like soul cleave build in a multiple mob dungeon like aa or bracken. but that would be a player skill issue and not a spec issue.
and at the end of the encounter you just save souls from last pull to use in the next for a instant sigil immo spb. threat is hardly a issue its just players not adapting or doing poor spec gameplay
its really not, it stays a valid option for fort due to parry, which is the actual power of the node and not the double utility sigils that people spam and misuse
also this is wrong now, cause new build doesnt use essb or felrush damage. AR havoc is back to a 3 button spec. i implore all of you to keep in touch with your classdiscords because if you did then this 0917286t23178187251 gcd opener rumor would have disappeared two beta builds ago
The point of discussing parses and IO is to show that I have experience which implies an understanding of how the class works and how to play it.
There are multiple DH mains who all agree that VDH has threat issues. It’s even been discussed during the MDI several times and by some of the top players in the world. You’re saying they are all wrong and you know better than them, with all your experience? This isn’t an issue at low-level content which is all you seem to have experience with unless you have another DH alt?
SPB requires fury and souls. Neither of which you have at the start of a large pull. There are several dungeons where pacing and using previous souls does not work. Also, the argument against Soul Cleave, shows you don’t understand the class. Soul Cleave is one of the few abilities we have to get aggro for low-cost because its spammable and has a much lower resource requirement - of course its flawed beyond 5 targets. So you are forced into using SPB, which is bad design.
The parry bonus is good but with the new affix system brand will likely be the better choice, especially since it spreads faster than before.
okay again im not asking for your resume, plenty of people who parse high or get high io still lack a fundamental understanding of the spec and thats okay
you know noawh and others came to me and other tcers for help for their mdi pulls and other push content right? tjuan is also a regular in felhammer and we help him alot with alot of his high key runs. again idk why your starting to io carding me, ive told naowh and helped him multiple times in the past and build a vdh and ret build in season2, if he still doesnt do the taunt trick then thats on him.
this is false, you know you got alot of tools to generate souls and fury at the start of the pul. like ya know. taunting/tg to pul la back so sigil can get maximum threat, ed and immo in there.
this is also giga false. but okay. what ever floats your boat. spb being better in larger pulls isnt bad design, it just yoda gaslighting everyone into thinking soul cleave build is better cause he cant be bothered to press spb at 3-4 souls
yes, but again parry is great for fort and brand is good for tytranical even with new affix. there isnt much of arguement here? we got choices instead of being perma funneled into illum sigils.
look its clear im not gonna get through to you if your gonna get this aggressive out of the getgo and constantly quote streamers who misplay 40% of their globals and hate logging their keys cause it shows the issues. pretending their absolutely perfect when theyre just human and prone to playin what they find comfortable more than whats viable, which goes to show the sad state of m+ is now compared to bfa and sl where you had to balance optimal damage and bulk to time highend keys. its clear that cutting edge m+ can be done with a build invovling bulk extraction and soul barrier if you have the team, time, and dungeon timer knowledge to pull it off. have fun
that being said i implore every vdh to check the felhammer if they need help improving in any way shape or form. i would be happy to log review you and so would plenty of other people who have experience helping the high io cutting edge key streamers with their mdi builds and pulls
To all the people saying DH is over performing, over powered, hasn’t looked at the logs.
In general as of right now, DH is 2nd-7th to last single target, depending on fight, almost dead last by a hair on a few. 11th on multi target, overall dmg including trash…for a DPS 2 spec class thats horrific.
Just because you got stomped by a Demon hunter on aoe on trash does not make them overpowered.
Only thing doing worse or around the same garbage damage, its back and forth, is Outlaw rogues that are being fixed in beta, and the now ruined Demonology Warlock because Blizz had a wild hair to push affliction and destro at end of expac.
They are one of the dominant in Remix only due to breaking stat walls to make them function the way they are supposed to.
DH tanking got slid down a few pegs going into TWW.
Only saving grace keeping class alive is mythic+ mainly tanking but drops off in TWW for other tanks, but most will be sat for heroic and mythic raids if not changed asap.
Blizzard has bad tendancy to tunnel vission specific classes devs play. Or that are a flavor of the weak. If you’re not you only get nerfs and forgotten.
