If you're banning GDKP, what alternative solution are you offering?

[Bergelmir-fairbanks]

@Miyukin-pagle

I raided with loot council for years, and this is also a list of things that never happened in my raids.

I’ve waited 20 years for a loot council like that. My guess is your raiders that aren’t in charge are waiting too.

[Miffymae-grobbulus]

@Bergelmir-fairbanks

I exclusively run GDKP

3 posts today about gdkp. You seem kinda upset little man. Maybe take a nap or something?

You might just have to gasp play the game to earn your gear instead of spending real money for it.

[Bergelmir-fairbanks]

I’m the GM of a competitive raiding guild and I host multiple raids every reset. I do speed clearing strats, I educate the public on mechanics. I very likely do more for the game than anyone posting here.

[Smooky-chaos-bolt]

Just keep doing GDKP, but without gold. Dragon Kill Points.

[Radigar-penance-au]

I really don’t understand why this is such a big problem in 10 man raids that really aren’t super difficult in the first place and only have a 3 day lockout.

There just aren’t that many mouths to feed and the difficulty doesn’t warrant some super complicated loot system.

My guild runs 2 main spec raids and an alt raid every lockout. Our loot system is need rolls for main spec items with a limit of 2 items per raid (items that are uncontested do not count). After that off specs can roll. That works perfectly fine. Literally none of the things you mention are actual problems.

1. If you don’t want an item, don’t roll on it.
2. Rolls don’t have personal bias.
3. If it’s for your main spec you can roll on it. Don’t gate keep.
4. If you don’t need the item, you can’t roll on it.
5. See #4 above.
6. If you have a toxic raid member who leaves because their item didn’t drop, then don’t invite them back.
7. If you have a toxic player that leaves after 1 wipe, then don’t invite them back.
8. This should never be a problem in a decently populated guild.
9. This isn’t a problem, it’s just how RNG works. No loot system can guarantee that no one will walk away empty-handed nor should it.
10. This isn’t a problem. People don’t have to play content that they don’t find fun and entertaining.

You are creating a list of imaginary problems to justify pay-to-win.

[Raïsin-moon-guard]

Guys don’t let banning GDKPs distract you from the fact that you can play the game and have fun by not buying your gear from others.

[Freeride-lone-wolf]

If it is as you say it is- then you should have no issues adapting.

[Fathyr-living-flame]

Let’s be honest here, there’s only two reasons someone is pro-GDKP.

1. They’re buying gold

2. They’re making gold by participating in the raid without needing any gear

And number two thinks they can just walk away with their hands clean knowing the vast majority of that gold was bought, but “they didn’t buy it themselves”.

I’m glad it’s going away.

[Raïsin-moon-guard]

There’s a third reason;

Don’t have time to raid and find a guild with time matches.

Sucks for those people ,but overall good change by blizz.

[Bergelmir-fairbanks]

Glad you all are reading the OP and taking the time to respond to the points being made. Quality posts. Thanks for the bumps tho

[Fathyr-living-flame]

And if those people don’t have time to do that, how do they have time to farm gold? Oh, that’s right. They bought it.

[Raïsin-moon-guard]

Some peolpe can actually not play the game and make gold lol

[Throwinhands-whitemane]

@Bergelmir-fairbanks

GDKP has always been an imperfect solution to a very real problem. I exclusively run GDKP for my guild as well as pugs because it is objectively the best option I have, despite the very obvious downsides. GDKP in the current form is a 5/10 loot system (at best), but it is so much better than random rolls, loot councils, or any other alternative we have available.

Here’s a list of things that never happen in a GDKP, but happen all the time in other loot systems.

1. A person winning an item that they don’t actually want.
2. A person being denied loot because of personal biases.
3. A person being denied loot because someone else decided it isn’t good for them.
4. Players winning an item they don’t need for free and trading it to a friend.
5. Players winning an item they don’t need for free and selling it to someone else for gold.
6. Players leaving when an item doesn’t drop.
7. Players that “have to go” after 1 wipe.
8. Inability to fill a spot when someone leaves halfway through the raid.
9. Players walking away empty handed.
10. Players never returning to raid content once they obtain enough the gear.

GDKP solves all of these problems, and yes, creates some new ones. But the community obviously chooses GDKP (despite the flaws) over the traditional methods. Look at WOTLK, you can barely find a raid anymore that isn’t GDKP and the same will happen in SoD. Why? Because GDKP is the community’s best solution to the problem.

Listen, I’m not married to GDKP and I openly accept the flaws, but it has simply been the best tool in my toolkit for all of the reasons stated above. Now you’re planning to ban it without offering anything in its place? What kind of an experiment is that? Who are you to tell the community that we’re wrong for choosing GDKP as a solution to these problems while not even acknowledging the problems or offering any solutions of your own? It sounds like you actually don’t understand the ground truth and think people run GDKPs because they support RMT. That’s not the ground truth, the vast majority of people run GDKPs because it best rewards them for their time (both as a buyer and as a carry). Simple as that.

So what would be an improvement?

Not that anyone asked before banning, but let’s consider a loot system that takes all the good from GDKP and leaves all the bad. I would target a new system that enables the same bidding and distribution to players as GDKP, but does so with a soulbound currency. If we earn raid emblems, for example, and use those to bid on gear - then the only way to farm the emblems is to kill raid bosses and/or get a distribution from completing a raid.

Bottom line

If there were a compelling loot system like the raid emblem bidding one above to take the place of GDKP I would view this change as a positive, but simply posting that “GDKP is banned” with no details and no alternatives is very short-sighted. This is only going to make the game worse and introduce all of the bad behavior listed above, and then some. Mark my words, the GDKP complaining posts will be replaced by posts about “ninjas” “rolling is unfair” “loot council is unfair” “reserves are unfair” and so on just like they were in 2005.

Soft res X3 runs have been phenom and waaaaaay better then that dirty +1 crap guilds run

[Gbpusd-lone-wolf]

You could not have said this any better. An alternative needs to be offered that solves the listed problems above for Blizzard to ban GDKP. It is short-sighted of Blizzard to cave into the vocal minority. GDKP is popular for a reason, it all comes down to fairness. They can permanently ban gold buyer/seller for all I care.

[Artamortis-bloodhoof]

I just got off the phone with NATO and they are aware that you are dropping logic bombs all over the forums

[Gbpusd-lone-wolf]

I like both SR and GDKP, but what SR lacks is the incentive for people with bis gear to come back to raid.

[Bergelmir-fairbanks]

@Fathyr-living-flame

Let’s be honest here, there’s only two reasons someone is pro-GDKP.

1. They’re buying gold
2. They’re making gold by participating in the raid without needing any gear

And number two thinks they can just walk away with their hands clean knowing the vast majority of that gold was bought, but “they didn’t buy it themselves”.

I’m glad it’s going away.

Addresses 0 of the points I make in the OP.

I’m not even going to dispute your 2 points. I freely acknowledge them. What’s your point?

[Bergelmir-fairbanks]

The whole argument falls over, logically.

If you don’t like gold buying/selling then fix that.

Banning GKDP is like banning cars because you don’t like pollution. Instead of coming up with a better option that solves the problem.

[Hamburger-defias-pillager]

@Bergelmir-fairbanks

my guild as well as pugs because it is objectively the best option I have

You could just uh…. I don’t know… use your guild to run a normal run? I’ve been doing this since 2005 and it has never been an issue. Pretty sure a lot of people do that too.

[Miffymae-grobbulus]

@Bergelmir-fairbanks

competitive raiding guild

Let me know which of the guilds on warcraft logs at the top run their main raid as GDKP. I think our definition of competitive might be different.

I will be waiting.