If you would like to see less shimmer in SL PVP

PVP Arenas
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Please support my thread in SL PTR. I’m advocating frost and arcane talents Glacial Insulation and Mana Shield receive a talent update in SL and are given the same alternative as fire, Blazing Barrier. (Shield Refresh on blink.)

As of now fire is the only spec that offers a reasonable alternative to shimmer on our mage lvl 30 row. We all know its a disliked talent and mechanic but if we go into SL with the same options you won’t see mages using it less since the alternatives are well…useless.

This isn’t an extreme change or anything. Just asking for parity across all 3 specializations and viable alternatives so we aren’t forced into shimmer for an entire expansion again.

Thanks for the support and help on this. My thread is on shadowlands PTR, make some noise and get some attention!

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Shimmer is going to have 1 charge. You’re trading the ability to blink out of stuns for the ability to blink while casting at that point — you’re definitely going to see less people using it.

Regardless, would be cool if the other talents were a little more interesting/better.

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it has 2 charges on beta

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While I would like to believe in this sentiment. Shimmer poly is still going to be the strongest option with how inferior the alternatives are. They are bottom line, a joke lol.

Shimmer poly while reduced to every 25 seconds, will still be the go-to for winning a game. OR Shimmer gpyro still remains (15 second cd but still invaluable)

You might see perhaps some changeup but I doubt it will be as much as we would like to see moving foward. Fire out of the 3 has the most usable alternatives while Frost/Arcane don’t really get anything amazing or useful for sacrificing shimmer.

A 25 second shimmer poly that could potentially win the game is a whole lot better then a 200% armor buff on ice barrier.

Mage alternatives for shimmer are as complex of a choice as deciding if you want to drop defense stance for second wind as it is now. (lol)

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I think they reverted it back to 2. It was 1 at the start of patch notes then Mages freaked out and they got it back.

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Good to know. Thanks for the update on that.

We get no one likes shimmer + poly or shimmer gpyro.

As of right now the level 30 row offers no competitive alternatives. If left unchanged going into SL we are still forced to use it basically since the row itself is Second Wind, Shimmer, Second wind basically tl:dr

Fire being the only reasonable ok this isnt too bad with how strong of a defensive tool blazing barrier is and blastwave while super lackluster is somewhat of a different option atleast.

Mana Shield, Slipstream, Glacial Insulation/Iceflows dont really come close. I’m sure you could situationally make use of iceflows of slipstream in some weird kind of way, but at the cost of shimmer? Not so sure its a good trade.

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If I’m right blizzard revert it because venruki and xaryu did a video saying it will destroy mage in pvp.

But tbh warlock/boomy doesn’t have shimmer and can cc in arena so it’s a bit stupid to say mage would be unplayable without it.

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Honestly they should just make shimmer baseline at this point, and then i’d like to see talents that buff it. I agree that blazing barier should get a frost + arcane version. I’d also like to see a talent that gives shimmer the ability to break out of stuns, like old blink had. Can’t think of a third talent.

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Warlock/boomkin are different classes with different ways of setting up CC.

Warlock positions differently then mage and also has coil/shadowfury to set up a fear if they desire it. Fear is also less frequently kicked or stopped because doing so gives them free reign to chaos bolt you. They WANT you to kick fear lol.

Boomkin also has shapeshift forms, stuns, instant root and solar beam.

As for mages we don’t have to rely on shimmer fire can set up its own CC now. The problem is the alternatives on the row for frost/arcane are absolutely troll talents at worst and severely undertuned/useless at best. Which only leaves you shimmer.

Why would you talent out of shimmer into 200% armor on ice barrier or manashield? what for? To troll? lol Which is why I think there should be parity among the 3. If fire chooses to talent out of shimmer, 1 of the options isnt half bad and gives you a bit of defensive play/wiggle room/synergy with other talents like prismatic barrier honor talent (50% magical damage taken for 2 seconds upon blink)

So with that an say blazing, it gives you a bit of tankiness vs wizards or spell cleaves.

Blastwave while undertuned is atleast SOMETHING. Frost/arcane literally get nothing of value/use. Which is the reason behind my thread and hoping others would get involved and try to highlight these issues so moving into SL we aren’t stuck with a row of second wind talents. Yes I re-use this term a lot but its a pretty fair analogy and description of it.

In no world ever would a warrior drop d-stance for the joke and troll pick 2nd wind has become for pvp.

Well some agree/disagree on this. Talenting shimmer is a trade off which I’m fairly ok with. The problem is there is no alternatives for frost/arcane. Fire has one thats a fair alternative but there is still the blastwave issue.

PVP community has become hostile to shimmer/poly shimmer/gpyro but there truthfully isn’t an alternative. Like sure you can pick those talents, but why? To troll your team? to make it harder? To gain nothing for the tradeoff?

Frost/Arcane especially suffer before BOTH of their talents outside shimmer severely handicap them and their performance so your left only with shimmer.

As for fire mages. I think more fire mages would play blazing if they got used to it, or it offered more then shimmer. Blastwave is the same in this regard. I think more people would use it if it was tuned and competitive. If it offered a knockback like ele or hunter trap. It would immediatly see use. Especially if the damage was brought up to par to honor and respect its cooldown time.

After all, you are literally trading shimmer + gpyro or shimmer + poly. The competition on tier has to be there for it to see use.

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I mean you should rely on your team-mate to get a cc off 100% and struggle like the other to get your sheep outside of them.

Idk why it should be different for mage compared to the other caster.

You were speaking about destro but it’s a terrible example, demonology and affli are both another example and boomkin having shape-shif (so mobility I guess?) is not different from mage normal blink to reach to cc.

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Would be cool if Shimmer had no charges because it didn’t exist.

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Shimmer = 0 skill ability

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this will never happen because every mage with a platform is horrendously biased and can’t think of a reasonable way to make mage fun to play without it being piggy backed by shimmer

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Demo has a pet stun 4 seconds long and ranged to secure its own CC if desired. Your point is quite invalid.

Affliction is the outlier by they typically don’t rely on CC to secure kill conditions. They just rot everyone into the ground and put the healer under immense pressure

Boomkin has access to a 5 second stun to secure its own CC (Your point is also invalid here). It also has instant roots and solar beam.

Elemental shaman has a stun totem to setup hex if desired.

Shadow Priest has instant blanket silence, instant fear that can be made into ranged AOE fear via mind bomb and also a horrify/stun effect.

Hunter if you wanna deem them a caster/ranged also has A stun to setup trap (BM)

Harpoon to setup trap (SV)

MM also has its own trap setup going into SL afaik.

I"m not sure why we are even having this discussion. I’m happy to educate you seeing as how misinformed you are but. This was about mages having options in talent tier other then Shimmer and not being forced into shimmer. I think it would be healthy and now that were on topic. I think deep freeze would be a suitable talent replacement for frost, in same row as shimmer and perhaps give arcane access to it as well instead of slipstream.

Fire probally doesnt need it and I’d rather see blastwave re-purposed into a much stronger incarnation to also offer competitiveness in the tree

Regardless I don’t think anyone disagrees there should be mage parity about the 3 trees and all should have their own version of Blazing Barrier to also lead away from shimmer or nothing.

My intent was to say

Fire/frost/arcane lvl 30 talent row should be Blazing Barrier for arcane/frost, their own respective version, at a minium. Since Mana Shield/Glacial Insulation are troll/useless abilities. Maybe offer a slight incoming kick duration paired with it like we had in legion to make it a strong contender with shimmer.

Shimmer.

and for Frost/arcane I’d say deep freeze in replacement of glacial flows and slipstream.

Fire should keep blastwave as stated but it should really be spiced up and tuned to be competetive in the tree and with deep freeze that frost/arcane would have.

As for fire’s CC problem I’ve always stated and maintained the position fire shouldn’t have ring of frost and it should be a carbon copy of Flame Wreath from OG karazhan.

If DKs can have defile from LK mages can have flame wreath from shade of aran. From lore/power perspective

There mage problems solved thanks for coming to my ted talk

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Hahahahaha

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Did I misrepresent the facts there? Its an option. You have it. You also have grounding totem to protect your Hex cast. Different classes are different.

Regardless this post was solely about providing mages parity in Shimmer talent row and better alternatives to it and would appreciate not derailing to complain about what your class does/doesn’t have or need/wants. You are welcome to create your own threads and offer insight. I would gladly offer my support in removal/changes to unhealthy and pigeon-holed abilities.

So if you don’t like it. Instead of offering what appears useless commentary why not rally for change as I am. You would see ALOT less shimmer if frost/arcane mages had deep freeze in same row or access to their own version of blazing barrier.

I don’t think I’m asking for anything extreme or advocating, just simple parity and alternative options to shimmer, to pull the class away from shimmer.

I don’t have platform to speak on or much influence. Hopefully some people here do and could bring much needed attention to something that would be from my POV fairly simple for a 60 billion dollar company to do/change. We aren’t reinventing the wheel here.

Blazing Soul should have a frost/arcane version. Normal blink with shield refresh on blink usage.

Deep Freeze option for Frost/Arcane to replace useless glacial flows/slipstream.

Fire keeps blastwave, no deep freeze. Blastwave is instead tuned/buffed accordingly to make it competive with rest of row/other mage specs with deep freeze access.

Shimmer problems and misery in your rear view mirror

All 3 specs would still have access to shimmer. You would probally just see it a lot less if the other options were there, viable and solid.

Without solid options/changes were going to have repeat of BFA and people tilting off the planet because of shimmer/poly and shimmer gpyro. End of day its not mages fault out of 3 options, 2 are troll picks.

Blame the devs not the class/player

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Does that say you edited that paragraph 5 times lol dang

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Indeed. As to not flood the thread with response. Better to proof read my rapid fire responses and make them coherent.

My point remains. If people don’t want shimmer to be the 100% only thing mages have then the answer isnt to gut shimmer and leave mages 3 laughable options in lvl 30 talent row.

Its to fix the other options as strong contenders and alternatives so its not shimmer or die.

You as a warrior should be sympathetic to the cause and trying to find mage solutions on this seeing as how the level 60 soon to be 35 talent row for warriors still suffers from Defensive Stance or bust.

Second Wind is a troll pick. Heroic leap CD reduction/sprint while ok in some weird situations (pve) is still an inferior pick to defensive stance which is the most solid option and only option for both PVE and PVP.

This is exactly what mages face in row with shimmer. Sure in some weird sort of way you can possibly make the other options work (lol) but the reality is they are just downright inferior across board and should never be talented over shimmer.

They could just as easily for warriors return MOP 2nd wind (doubtful) or replace it with old enraged regen slightly retuned. or Offer OG enraged regen, mop second wind, defensive stance on same row and suddenly you would have a solid row each a good choice. Now every warrior isn’t defensive stance or bust.

See how easy that was?

Welcome to mage shimmer problem

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Then if you see It this way, frost has frost nova to sheep.

Fire frost nova+dB into sheep

Arcane frost nova and 4blinks so Idk… Anyway.

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Your trolling at this point if your comparing a root to a stun. What even is your point here? That mages should keep shimmer forever? Have 2 useless talents on same row? That’s what this thread is about.

Mages have 2 borderline useless talents on same row as shimmer so having no options to drop shimmer. Being forced into shimmer gameplay is not what every mage wants, this may come as a surprise to you. Having healthy alternatives is a good thing unless you want to be upset about shimmer/poly shimmer/gpyro for all of SL like BFA.

Its not a player problem, its a class problem. There are no options on same row so your left with only one real choice.

Fire does have slightly better defensive option but many players like @dillion would even tell you choosing it is a disadvantage given the choice. Frost/Arcane lack the same option fire has, just a simple shield refresh on blink. I tagged dillion because as much as he dislikes shimmer gpyro he also admits to having a mage at 3k+ rating and would be first to conclude even with bias. mages have no alternatives in row to shimmer

Though giving up shimmer for that would more or less get you labelled loony or trolling. Myself personally I prefer it because I’m a fan of normal blink/relentless and not getting blown up in 4-6 second stun everytime its off cooldown