If you could retcon the Burning of Teldrassil, would you?

[Amadis-draka (Amadis)]

Here is an example of why I consider it the same plan. Maybe it will outline the difference more as I see it. Say I go, ‘I’m going to exploit money from Joe.’

See, I see it more as “I’m going to exploit money from Joe by identity theft” and then getting frustrated by not being able to get his information that the would-be exploiter gets obsessed with stealing Joe’s identity and forgets that they were after the money in the first place.

In this way, I see their plan as always being ‘drive a wedge between the Alliance’. The specifics of that went from ‘capture Teldrassil’ to ‘burn Teldrassil’.

See, but that’s where my main issue is. The plan is “drive a wedge between the Alliance,” that I agree with. What I take issue with is that - even if she was wrong - Sylvanas had a thought process out for how “capture Teldrassil” would accomplish this. There is no such thought process in how “burn Teldrassil” would accomplish that, and she changed her entire goal to instead “make the Alliance lash out in anger” and completely fumbled the “drive a wedge between the Alliance” goal.

So to me it’s not semantics of what we consider the plan, but her throwing the whole plan away.

Delaryn seems pretty broken at this point.

Yeah, but her hopelessness isn’t spreading to the rest of the Alliance. Delaryn doesn’t even do anything of notice after being raised.

No offense intended, then. And my apologies.

Thank you for your understanding.

I just consider his actions leading up to the situation as making him as culpable. He shouldn’t have agreed to this war, helped plan it, helped execute it. I would say he’s not fully responsible, at least.

I agree with you at least that he shouldn’t have agreed to the war or had any part of it. But he can atone for that, even if he likely can’t ever actually make up for it.

I agree he’s certainly seeming to take on more responsibility for what happened. Just not necessarily shaking blame for the burning.

Well I hope he does, because martyrdom isn’t a healthy mindset, either.

Mainly because my point was that it was her plan

That is what I’m trying to address, though. Your case has been “that was her plan” when I don’t see her connecting any dots to make that fit her plan at all.

Again, not that it would work. Just that it followed the same thought process.

The lack of a thought process from her is what I’m seeing, though.

For the record, I don’t mean to imply that. I’m just at the point where I don’t know how much more useful comments I can contribute.

Well, if you can think of any more, I always welcome them.

Hope you have fun because frankly regarding Horde

Well, I mean, I’m not right now. That’s why I’m not playing on the Horde right now, because it wouldn’t be fun. And I won’t play the Horde again until I consider it potentially fun again.

The Horde are now just a means to end for me for gameplay purposes.
My characters could be switched to an Ooze and I could not care any less.

Like I said, Youtube has covered the means for lore purposes, and gameplay, well, I don’t really play WoW for gameplay any more. Mostly play it for my story’s characters. And I wouldn’t expose my Horde alts to BfA’s story. I like them too much for that.

Sylvanas may not be a fitting representative of Horde culture as a whole, but nearly every culture in the Horde has some propensity to commit heinous atrocities (except maybe the Tauren).

Twice now, the Night Elves have suffered at the hands of the Horde, Honor Horde and Pragmatic Horde alike. The only difference is the Honor Horde preferred smaller, personal atrocities, like skinning individual Night Elves, while the Pragmatic Horde went big, with genocide.

I don’t disagree with you. But if anything, Saurfang could atone for the War of the Thorns by changing the Horde to not be this any more. That was Thrall’s biggest failing, not actually being able to reform the Horde (his whole excuse back in The Shattering being that the Horde would consider him weak for trying, so he didn’t even try). If Saurfang could actually pull it off, that would be atonement. Now, I don’t think Blizzard can pull it off. But, still, there are hypothetical ways.