… would you keep the combo point system?
2 Likes
Yes.
Energy and combo points is fine.
Problem is that the new team doesn’t understand that there has to be a payoff when you use full combo point finishers.
This is because you invested energy and time to build those combo points. That is why people are asking for combo point builders to be meaningful again either with more damage, flow better in a rotation or even offer more layers of nuance for skilled players (eg Ambush/Backstab).
5 Likes
Yes.
It’s a little more complicated than that. Outlaw’s glaring issue is that it will forever be hamstrung by Roll the Bones and Blade Flurry, while our Mastery is still crap and it requires so much tracking for zero payoff.
Summarily Dispatched should feel pretty meaty in conjunction with Cold Blooded + Ghostly Strike, but it just doesn’t.
Killing Spree as a combo point finisher is actually a good idea, but the 8 second damage DoT is atrocious.
Our energy regen kind of blows because builders are so expensive.
2 Likes
Yes because combo points aren’t the problem with the spec at all. Outlaw for example is extremely easy to fix except the devs don’t care at all about the class.
- Revert the energy nerfs putting Combat Potency back to 35%
- Fatal Flourish back to 75%
Both these talents should be recombined regardless instead of wasting 2 points - Sinister Strike proc chance back to 45%
- Undo the Adrenaline Rush nerfs that had zero legitimate reason to be made
- Pause Adrenaline Rush duration while completely out of combat in Stealth like UHUH does currently; Strictly out of combat so ADR duration is not paused during Subterfuge widows
Wow so now we’re at the point where once again the spec isn’t literally required to have 100% uptime and doesn’t get punished for losing 3 gcds by making you do healer damage for the next 1 1/2 minutes if you ever have to leave a boss.
- Remove Underhanded Upper Hand because it’s no longer required for us to have 100% uptime on ADR
- Buff or rework Greenskin’s Wickers
- Fully rework Killing Spree as an ability, turn it into a buff, or make it a choice node with Blade Rush while making Blade Rush inherit Trickster nodes to not upset Classic players by removing it
- Deft Maneuvers / Dancing Steel / Precise Cuts should be merged and baseline. There’s zero reason we should have to spend 3 talent points for something every other spec in the game gets for free
- Current 4p set bonus replaces Sleight of Hand which is a 100% factually dead talent in every situation
- Blinding Powder and Riposte either baseline or removed and replaced on the tree
- Blade Flurry softcapped instead of capped at 8 and adjusted accordingly
They literally gave Sub 8 target Blade Flurry Eviscerate while Black Powder is still soft capped adding even more insult to the current state of Outlaw - Revert the change to Acrobatic Strikes and give it back to Outlaw
- Return Marked For Death to the general talent tree since Cold Blood is a meme ability or make it a choice node with it
- Add Serrated Bone Spike as a choice node with Echoing Reprimand with the follow up talent giving it the Necrolord legendary effect
- Fatebound coins shouldn’t be lost after 15s of being out of combat
- Trickster Coup de Grace should not be gcd locked, animation locked, or proc from Crackshot BTE activations because it’s literally a dps loss to even spec into it
- Potentially adjust Crackshot values to bring it inline with Greenskins if needed
So now the spec is no longer permanently energy starved outside of ADR, you don’t revert to doing healer damage pressing 1 Sinister Strike every 3 seconds, build diversity returns since KIR is dead to the ADR haste change, GSW build alternative, aren’t forced to kill yourself every 20s with Killing Spree, Blade Flurry softcap so we get to play the game past the first month when every dungeon turns into 20+ mob pulls, and we removed all the needlessly pointless clunk from the spec.
It’s truly an impossible task for Blizzard though to admit they were wrong and mostly revert the spec though 
6 Likes
A curious observation I’m making as I browse through the forums and Discord is that many Rogue players seem to want to keep rogues playing “as is” without too many changes. Just minor tweaks here and there.
It’s just… curious.
People want them streamlined down, which may not be a bad thing since blizzard went overboard on gimmick cd’s (looking at you sub) that could be baked in or outright removed for big buffs to finishers/spenders.
The entire problem Blizzard creates for us in pvp is this, we are ment to do big damage in a smallish window and we must have cross cc out to accomplish this past a certain point rating wise. This creates a situation where people cry and for some odd reason blizzard obliges them and removes most of the damage from the class outside those small windows where you do far far less damage but can still score a kill if people make mistakes. I saw this happen to Assassination and Sub nearly every season, with the exception of the last season were Assassination got nerfed but not into the ground like season one.
In mythic plus/raid the reliance on stealth which is left over from Dragonflight b/c Shadowdance was available to all while not being available to all now is going to be a problem for Outlaw/Assassination. Tanks that chain pull (not knocking them it’s to the benefit of the group sometimes) are really going to mess up the dps windows for Assassin and Outlaw.
Hero talents are really uninspired and bland and seemingly underpowered, which is going to be a big problem.
I’d hate to see these issues trying to be covered by a tier set, at this point that’s more gimmick and not the fix the class needs. Redesign, not as many gimmick cd’s, meaningful damage outside cd’s and a way to trigger stealth mechanics on the regular (every 20s) for Assassination and Outlaw if the team wants them to be based around stealth. Otherwise the whole package for both is clunky and…well bad. Same with sub and being a gimp outside 9 cd’s. Sub is gimp even with those CDs atm in pvp.
2 Likes
Main Gauche does pretty reasonable damage on beta, pretty comparable to ruptures in testing.
Yes it is close to how it was in Cata/MoP/WoD.
I have to agree that Rogues should be able to do more damage outside of stealth windows and CDs. Because take away Rogue damage outside of that and Rogues must do damage inside stealth windows and CD stack even more.
1 Like
Agreed, we have been nudged (not full swing) in the opposite direction to have some damage out of stealth and that is healthy. HP pools aren’t likely to be reduced drastically and other stuff like longer cc (not needed) because it always leads to us getting blamed somehow.
It’s a good movement and should help with the abysmal lows that us Subtlety rogues go through since legion nonsense is being slowly dialed back.
Outlaw gaining armor penetration through Fatebound is good for them and Assassins gaining some solid direct punch is also good.
I’d like to see stealthed and non-stealthed versions of abilities condensed into a single ability, much like is already done for Garrote (when talented) and Feral Druid’s Rake and Shred. Same ability, added behaviors when used from stealth. Makes building talents for things more synergistic.
I’d also like to see something like:
- Auto attacks for Outlaw cannot be blocked, dodged, or parried.
- Expose Weakness and any crowd control effects on a target for Subtlety allow attacks against that target to occur as though from stealth.
- Weapon Poisons (at least for Assassination) have 100% proc/application chance.