maybe they should scale the rewards for things based on highest content you done I dont mean just pugging the first mythic boss I mean like have to be min 5/9 mythic for alts on your account to get heroic lvl raid gear from weekly quests stuff like that. Could make life a little better for the better players and could really help with all the raider IO cry too cuz people seem entitled once they get gear score.
Why should it be? Does Blizzard limit your access to content?
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Yet you want players limited in ilevel for completing end game content.
I’ll still maintain, fairness is what helps us all.
Fantastic idea!
I dont WANT welfare loot 50 ilvls higher than what I should have
Ive hated that aspect of this game since I started playing
give me SMALL increments of gear level increases. That makes it feel like REAL progression. Not this welfare lottery RNG system they have now that really just feels cheap more than anything.
Helps you do what, exactly? Why do you need heroic raiding ilvls to do world quests? lol
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Or pre lfr it was both in one category since you needed progression on both fronts.
No one raids for prestige now. It’s all gear.
Not when we have so many levels of difficulty. Having the base difficulty rewards outstrip the others isn’t exactly a good reward system to motivate players towards climbing the difficulty ladder.
Fair? How is it fair that player A spent weeks clearing a boss requiring coordination, scheduling, group management, etc. etc. etc. but player B spent weeks doing the exact same quests on repeat yet receive the exact same reward? Not to mention the rewards that come out of the Mythic weekly quest cache and the reward that comes out of the WF quest which are instantly heroic in ilvl?
That seems to me to be the epitome of an unfair distribution system.
How is it fair that I killed M G’huun, a feat that took me weeks of dedication, yet then replaced the gear I got from the literal hardest boss in the game (at the time) from a WF that I watched netflix while completing?
The reality is… everyone has a bit of both types in them. Those who prioritize the former still raid, those who prioritize the latter don’t (and likely mostly have stopped playing).
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They don’t. They just want to continue their ilvl progression… which is highly ironic… We’re morally reprehensible because we’re asking for ilvl progression, yet their morally appropriate while also asking for the same ilvl progression.
@Rigg: Here’s the thing… in a vaccuum… I don’t care whatsoever what you’re wearing. No I really don’t. You could be in full 425 gear and I would not care. Specifically because (I’m assuming here), you and I? We’ll never meet in game. You’re not interested in my content. You’re never going to even enter into my world. I do not care about what you’re wearing if you’re not even impacting my gameplay.
The problem is… We’re not in a vaccuum. That awesome gear that’s available to you? That’s also available to EVERYONE… that includes people who DO impact my world. With this gear, you’ve raised the relative ilvl base of the player base. That means loads of people are walking around with bazooka’s on their back, yet many of them would rather melee with those bazooka’s than actually figure out how to use them correctly. It’s why things like IO have come about. It’s why things like parses no longer even matter. The entire competitive scene has been reduced to: Who can clear the content fastest and who can push the highest key. All so you can defeat a WQ 5 seconds faster.
Devise a system that doesn’t impact the competitive scene, but STILL gives you meaningful progression (hell you could even get stronger than me) and I will not care. But it’s precisely because the current gear iteration DOES impact the competitive scene that I do care.
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I’m not sure I have read a better post on the forum regarding this issue. +1
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I dont know about everyone else, but Ive always raided because I have fun doing it. I would grind out gear to get into raids. The gear drops from the raid were simply an added bonus.
Wrong assumption. The fee gives you access to the same content. You can’t just demand that you get every achievement, unlock in a video game when you buy it. Are you the type that would complain you don’t get the unlimited gatling gun in Resident Evil if you don’t take the steps to actually obtain it?
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It’s funny to see that arguments haven’t changed on one side or the other since this game released. which is light heartedly funny.
Raiders (which I myself was one of back in vanilla) argue that their achievements and gear rewards should set them apart from the rest of the player base.
While the rest of the player base argues that game content and character progression shouldn’t be limited only to those “hardcore” few who can devote larger amounts of time to playing the game.
It’s funny because these arguments are what lead to things like LFG/LFR and eventually removing the differences in gear and making obtaining the highest ILVL gear available to everyone no matter their particular play-style being added to the game
and equally funny/Ironic that the same argument (now in reverse), that the removal of these restrictions / requirements is leading to WoW Classic. lol.
So, when classic does release, I do see very clear divide happening.
All (not all I’m sure… just generalizing) the hard core types, who view progression for the achievement of it all and feeling of accomplishment on a character or in a guild will see Classic as the answer to their complaints about the game being too easy and too open to everyone. and they will all move there.
And then the rest will just continue playing retail, gearing up, burning out, waiting for next expansion and then rinse repeat.
I’m actually torn on where I see myself here.
I do like the idea of classic and of feeling like there is a sense of progression again and having a meaningful guild again with players who are like minded and also want to progress. without LFR/WQ/Mythic, etc. to sort of easymode the gear and character progression.
But… I also like the characters I have and all the things I’ve accomplished with them. I would miss my DH and DK and flight and access to the whole game without having to devote hours and hours each night to looking for groups.
I feel like I will probably make a character on classic and probably only play it when my retail characters are on cooldown. ![:slight_smile:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/slight_smile.png?v=6" ":slight_smile:")
That’s where I am. I’ll play classic when I want to feel like I’m part of an RPG experience where my power is relative to the effort I put in. I’ll play BfA, when I want to enjoy fast paced action packed high difficulty content.
They’re pretty much completely different games at this point.
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Its funny on the first currency in the U.S it had a saying “mind your business”
There needs to be more of that…mind your business… Everybody worried about what the other person has…but does not effect them one iota…its a game people
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I like reading these particular threads because there is always one guy who pops in because he legitimately thinks that there are Mythic raiders who are upset or offended by his ability to get 390 gear in a world quest and he feels like these systems are really “sticking it” to them so they wan’t to “rub it in”.
Literally nobody cares about that.
The reason these systems are garbage aren’t because Mythic raiders are intimidated by your welfare epics. The reason they’re garbage is because they’re completely destroying the reward/progression structure for the people who actually like to do that content … as opposed to the people who like to spend all their time complaining about the people who do that content, and about how no one will let them do the content, and who want gear like the people who do the content … and then still refuse to do the content even when they have everything they wanted.
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filthy casuals
Blizzard really kinda shot themselves in the foot and then built themselves into a giant trap when they adopted gearscore into the game and created iLvls…
The existence of them isn’t actually the reason why I say this though, it’s more what they have become that is the reason. iLvls were not supposed to be the end-all be-all of gear value. They were meant to create an equivalency value between different pieces of gear for the same slot that had different stats.
Over time, they removed stats and made gear more standardized. What was once just a value of equivalency, became the backbone and design of gear. iLvls slowly began to be the most important thing on a piece of gear. This process lead the developers into believing that the only way to make gear feel rewarding for higher difficulties is if the iLvl on the gear was at least 5 higher than the previous difficulty, and that the same philosophy should be applied to each raid tier as well.
The ever increasing iLvl with each raid difficulty and tier caused iLvls to sharply spike over the last few expansions, resulting in a massive amount of power creep. In Legion, the power creep got so massive that they were unable to ignore it. Before legion the power creep from fresh max level to end of campaign max level would peak at about a 300% increase, but in Legion it tipped over 3,000% not even halfway through the expansion’s life span. So we got the ilvl squish to bring numbers back down into a more reasonable spectrum again. However, they have neglected to adjust their design philosophy with the iLvl squish, and we will see the same absurdly high power level creep again shortly, we already have more iLvl for gear at lv120 than from lv1-119.
The issue with iLvls is compounded even more this expansion by the removal of Raid Tier Sets. We no longer get special set bonuses from raid gear that defines a class or build style. Instead, we have a few new universal Azerite traits that can be found only on gear from said raid… for some these new traits might be BiS, for others they are utterly worthless and the gear serves only as an iLvl boost.
Without set bonuses to add additional value to raid gear, it is no surprise that people are claiming that all the new sources of high end gear devalue their experience and make mythic raid gear worthless. It’s not that those sources of gear actually do any of that, but rather that Blizzard actually removed the intrinsic value from raid gear as a whole when they decided to remove set bonuses.
It isn’t even just the removal of set bonuses either that adds to this devaluation of raid gear. They remove class sets entirely, so now there are only 4 armor sets per raid, a cloth set, a leather set, a mail set, and a plate set. While this design choice may have opened the door to making armors that are themed more towards the raid itself instead of trying to figure out how to make a set for each individual class to fit the same theme while still fitting the theme of the class, they have not done a very good job at taking advantage of that open door. Instead, we have gotten increasingly more generic raid gear with each tier. There isn’t really anything unique about the current raid gear, there’s nothing that makes someone say “Yes! I want to work for THAT set as my transmog” the new raid gear is nothing but stat blocks.
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I dinged this week and already replaced my LFR pieces with TW blues.
Why aren’t we complaining about TW? It’s easier and farmable.
the one thing worse than complaint threads,
threads about other people complaining.
Complainception.
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