If you look at my guilds sapph attempts, can you pls provide some input on what we need to do better?
https://classic.warcraftlogs.com/reports/DrNagQhYzmHdT9Vk
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your healers dont heal enough. i see really weak healers and i see health bars dropping and not getting back up
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ty, we are going to try with world buffs sunday, hopefully it wont suck.
Sapphiron and Kel’thuzad are very difficult without world buffs. I don’t think my guild has ever done them without.
But yes, as Joyson said it’s the healing. HPS of individual healers needs to be higher and overall HPS needs to be higher. The raid HPS on your best attempt was 4,700. My guild’s last Sapphiron kill had a raid HPS of 7,400.
Sapphiron is a healer fight more than any other fight in vanilla. You cannot kill Sapphiron without decent healers.
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I agree world buffs should help, they are huge for Sapph horde side. For whatever reason alliance have this fight easier and have the whole time. It’s good you got your practice in though before the buffs. To be honest, the first time we killed Sapph we had 16 healers and world buffs. You have 14 though so that’s enough.
I looked at the logs and did the replay and yeah that really seems to be the main thing. All the best on getting a kill.
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This is a very nice thread. Break a leg, subby.
Couchy
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1: get your leg and head items enchanted with 10+fr, shield enchanted with 8+fr, and capes enchanted with +5all resistances. As well enchanting your fr gear with enchants is alot of stats that people are missing.
2: Apply frost juju.
3: did you amplify magic? (increases healing done, but doesn’t increase damage from frost arura, if your dispellers are on point and you have a gspp up you should take no extra damage).
4: have warriors hit defensive stance and slap on a fr shield the best you have during air phase, pop a gfpp and bandage.
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Does your tank and the DPS have enough frost resist gear?
They should be pre popping a GFRP, and then again for air phases if it is up.
Make sure everyone has the FR juju’s.
We put raid marks on our dispellers so people know who they have to be close enough to for dispels.
If you don’t dispel fast enough when the 6 people get hit, it hurts a lot.
This one may seem silly but we also use Troll’s Blood pots for the little bit of extra health regen.
If you are close to a kill, that little bit might push you over the top.
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Couple things:
Your priests are killing you. Half your healing core are priests and they’re all using renew or Heal. Judging by your gear you have to have several priests in full T2 at this point and they should all be using it. You can put a priest on either side (preferably anyone without T2 and with T3) to renew, but everyone else should be spamming downranked Gheal. Don’t use anything else unless you need to shield to save someone/yourself (maaaybe an occasional POH if you can time it correctly.) Just Gheal, all the time.
You also need more FR. We’ve been killing Sapph for months and usually have buffs when we get there so we remove a lot of FR, but we’re still taking less DTPS than your raid… Especially if your healers are struggling, everyone who isn’t a healer/tank needs to be in as much FR as is available.
Other notes:
Your healers aren’t potting efficiently. Several only used one pot on fights where they should have gotten several off and none are using dark runes. If this is a progression fight for you they need to be popping a pot as soon as they’re down 2k mana, and popping on CD along with runes… They’re both cheap AF now, no excuse not to. Same with Inner Focus. Use it early, use it on cooldown. In general your priests/healers should also be gearing for regen in slots that aren’t taken by T2. Blue dragon trinket, regen neck etc…
B: Priest/Warrior are my mains so those are the two I checked, but I’d imagine most of your raid has a similar problem with not using cooldowns effectively. You had literally one warrior use Deathwish on your attempts, once. Most of your warriors literally didn’t deathwish once on any attempt… You can almost always DW twice on Sapph and with yalls times you may even be able to get 3 off. DPS should be blowing cooldowns early, and at the end of every air phase as they come off CD
And of course you can’t have people dying to frost breath. People need to look around as they start dropping. If there isn’t one near you after 3 drop you need to start moving, don’t wait for the 5th to drop and then start figuring out where you need to go or often you’ll be too late.
Hope that helps. Lmk if you have any questions, particularly concerning dps or healing
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Thank you all. I will pass it on.
While I didn’t look through each persons gear or look at the logs to much, here are some suggestions
- Have everyone target around 200 Fr
- Melee and ranged should be using GFrPP on cooldowns and healers should saving cooldowns for mana pots until mana is no longer a problem
- People should be moving towards an iceblock if there isn’t one close once the second is down, but still remaining 10 apart, that means people can’t get to the ice block early.
- Priests should each have groups and be group healing, people need to make sure they are in range of their priest. They should downrank as necessary be efficient but cover the healing
- Melee/casters should be using health stones and bandages when behind ice blocks
- Don’t stand in the ice storm
- Your priests need to prioritize healing themselves, several died early, this will have a cascading effect.
Sapp really isn’t a hard fight, but its easy to make little mistakes that build up quickly.
There are people who are pre-popping and combat-potting the non-greater versions of the Frost/Shadow Protection potions. There are even healers who are doing this. There are several people who just aren’t combat potting.
All of that needs to stop. The Greater Protection Potions need to be the only type of Protection Potion used. Everybody needs to pre-pop one Greater Frost Protection Potion and a Greater Shadow Protection Potion (Life Drain) pre-pull. Have your DPS save their combat potions for Greater Frost Protection Potions at the beginning of the air phases. Mana on the healers through mana pots is more important than Frost Protection Potions, so they should be combat potting mana potions. For the MT, the armor is more important than the frost absorption so he should be combat potting Greater Stoneshields. Before pulling, wait for potion cooldowns to come back off so the MT can Stoneshield ASAP and the healers can mana pot freely.
Because the frost aura (usually) damages every 2 seconds, it’s possible to get a single bandage tick for 250 healing when players are otherwise not doing anything (ie: waiting for ice blocks or the breath). As small as it is, it does add up.
As a progression boss, Sapph is pretty brutal on the consumable needs just because of how high all the numbers are. It’s not acceptable for some raiders to go all in on the consumable usage while others can’t be bothered to even get the highest rank consumables. If your raiders are strapped for cash, then only do 1 or 2 tryhard attempts with world buffs and no consumable left unused. The rest can just be practice runs without consumable requirements.
The tank shouldn’t be using frost resist gear. Sapphiron is a hard hitting physical damage boss who only does about 35% of his tank damage as frost damage. Sapphiron is perfectly capable of killing tanks through his spike physical damage. Getting frost resist to reduce periodic frost damage doesn’t help survive enough.
The only piece of frost resist I wear as the tank is the AV exalted trinket. The only other piece I’d consider is the T2 helm.
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If everyone has that new item I suggest some pulls to get the hang of it before you buff up
https:// classic. warcraftlogs. com/reports/DrNagQhYzmHdT9Vk#fight=66&type=damage-taken&ability=348191
Sorry they don’t let me post links. Go to that page and sort by Avg Hit. You guys are getting hammered with frost aura. You need a good bit more FR gear and some of your guys towards the bottom could probably do with less. With your healers you could probably manage an avg frost aura hit between 250 and 300 for most of the raid and get the kill.
I’m going to disagree with the person who said have your priests go with 8/8 T2. Priests can put up really good healing numbers with that gear but they end up sucking most of it up for themselves. Also, that setup consistently produces more overhealing on the Saph fight than any other healer outfit. 8/8 T2 generates more overall healing but much less raid healing because a huge portion of the HPS goes to the priest. I know this will be an unpopular opinion but I didn’t invent math, it’s there for everyone to see.
If you want an easy fight get more FR gear (priests included).
Definitely agree. We did the math on the Stormpike trinket for the Saph fight and the dodge, FR and 8 health per 5 translated into about 4300 health every 5 minutes.
Healers shouldnt wear FR, particularly priests
I typed out the explanation but then I realized I don’t want to argue with a random person on the WoW forums. Bottom line, if you want an easy Saph fight use FR gear.
Sure don’t argue, you’re wrong. Healers shouldnt wear FR gear unless they’re just really bad and can’t help but stand in Blizzard. Barring that, the healing gained always outweighs the damage prevented. It’s the same logic behind why healers use mana pots instead of FR pots.
Bearhands is correct, healers shouldnt wear any FR, maybe the +25 ring if you really want to. Get Juju’s and Greater FrR pots.
As for the fight itself, I will focus on your druids as you have 3 and my main is a resto druid and Sapph is my favourite fight to heal. 1 of your Druids has Idol of the Moon equipped btw, he/she needs to get Idol of Rejuve, its easy farmed.
- Assign 2 (ranged) groups to each Druid as you have 3 and they should be able to handle 2 groups.
- All Druids should be wearing full T2 for this fight + Idol of Rejuve. (don’t forget to enchant your T2)
- Get rid of Darkmoon Card: Blue Dragon
- Keep Rejuve R11 rolling on yourself, Rejuve R4 on your assigned healing groups. At all times, just keep rolling.
That’s it basically. If you can, keep R11 rolling but I don’t think they can at this point so just R4 on targets and R11 on self. Don’t use Regrowth, you’ll go oom.
The other healers: Shamans should target the melee group(s). Stick 3 priests on your main tank. The other 3 priests should use renew rank 10 on self and rank 3/4 on their (ranged) groups, same idea as the druid healing. Greater Heal rank 1 in combination with Renew 3/4 also good. 2 of your priests are using flash heal as main spell, don’t.
Dispells: get your mages to dispell, your druids need to heal and not focus on dispells unless a mage dies.
Prepot Gr Frost and Gr Shadow protection.
Use runes and manapots on CD.
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I will disagree with the concept that healers shouldn’t be wearing any Fr gear, though would say that they should avoid wearing bad Fr gear (greens), and should retain desired set bonuses, people also don’t need 250 or 300 Fr, from 150 to 200 should be plenty. Healers can probably drop closer to 100 if they aren’t having problems keeping themselves up.
The important thing is to eliminate the need for big heals by smoothing out the damage both to others and themselves. With the exception of the tank healers, this isn’t a very spiky fight, you will know when the damage is coming and they should be able to manage their mana accordingly to see if they will need to use a mana pot or if they can sneak in another GFrPP. Night dragon’s breath is also nice for the fight, its easy to get, and it doesn’t damage you when you use it unlike dark runes. While mana gained is less, the tiny heal you get vs taking damage helps balance it out.
From a raid stand point, you should have a ton of frost runes. All of your raiders with the exception of the main tank should be getting the Fr legs and rings, with the T2 helm and some Fr enchants this should get everyone over 100. For the rest, unless your selling your runes, if each raider picks up another 1-2 items, they should be good.
Another thing that can help, though probably not needed long term is to make sure everyone gets at least 2 healthstones. They should alternate using these before air phases with the GFrPP. You can have someone call this out in discord also. Make it clear that they shouldn’t be wasting their potion cooldowns on other things.