I’m sorry but why? It was everything current mistweaver is but actually fit into a comprehensive and synergistic kit where things made sense and the class had any amount of complexity. Like, I genuinely don’t see how it wouldn’t be better let alone how it would be terrible
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Probably because uplift doesn’t scale down to 5 targets effectively for it’s general gcd investment, I’d assume.
Just want to say thanks to everyone for all the suggestions. It’s been great reading though all these ideas over the last few days.
Here’s my reasons:
I’ve done a lot of healing. Any healer with multiple resources is just dead to me…priest chakram, current hpal. Hey, thats fine if you like it, its not for me.
Wod mw would just not work in the mythic+ current design effectively.
Wod mw was always pretty weak in pvp. You dont need to bring that back.
For raids, sure. It was more fun. But it doesnt solve the basic problem: mw is only good when its hps is huge. It doesnt have the utility to be average. So, wod mw doesnt really solve these problems. In fact, you’d probably reduce its hps to make up for its crazy mana efficiency in the wod mw design.
One thing I would take back tho, is the stances.
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Its less the investment isn’t worth it and more the micromanagement is too much. You have to reapply it so often when a lot of the time you will want it on the same person(a tank).
It hitting the lowest health renewing mist target would alleviate the micromanagement, but a little too much because then you lose a lot of the control you currently have. Currently you control when the statue moves to a different target. With it following renewing mist, you can’t control it as much.
Which is why I think it just needs to channel a bit longer after you set it with soom.
Basically gotta balance micromanagement with control.
I honestly somewhat agree that something like holy power is kinda clunky for hpal but chi generation was much better in design and could also be further improved if reintroduced. Adding chi back gives more room for balancing spenders (such as spinning crane kick, which required unique attention because it’s now just pure spammable aoe). Also, if I’m remembering right, mistweaver was pretty decent in arenas during WoD. I don’t remember it being the strongest but I thought it was quite good with turbo, tsg and other cleaves. Mistweaver also wasn’t crazy mana efficient, it just used things like mana tea to keep parity with other healers. Of course it would have to be re-tuned but current mistweaver has a lack of design and, critically, a lack of attachment to the monk class.
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Thing is, we have had many iterations of MW monk since MoP with varying degrees of effectiveness, including how represented they are in pvp (which right now is zero)
Right now I look at the other healer’s toolkits and MW are lacking in a lot of ways
At times MW would offer little utility but the best healing, right now they are at best a middle of the pack healer with even less utility then they had before
Like mana costs prevent MW from having good sustained, or the other way would be to increase healing done at the same mana cost to be on par with other healers, and they have better ways to save/recover mana (water shield, holy power spells are free, priest shadowfiend/talents, druid innervate)
I’d be happy with all that too
Also WoD was an option not a rework, likely through a talent to change how soothing works
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Agreed about essence font.
Not just boring and less interaction, but also tied to almost everything without any thought, and in some cases not working as expected.
For example, it provides double mastery procs, and is required to activate ATOTM, but ATOTM doesn’t make any use of mastery.
Another example is the lack of mastery procs on Vivify cleave. Why spread essence font for double mastery procs if our only other way to heal multiple targets doesn’t proc mastery?
Yet another example is the PVP talent, Refreshing Breeze. The Vivify cleave doesn’t refresh essence font. It’s like they worked so hard to force EF as a staple of our kit, but didn’t actually make it synergize with anything.
Because mastery is terribly tuned and that would overvalue it to the extreme?
A basic 2 ReM Vivify with all hits activating mastery and mastery stat to diminishing (somewhere around 150 iirc) would be pulling over 1200% SP with EF up, 900% from the mastery alone.
Weakening mastery for this would mean our single target would get even worse, since all of our spells seem to be designed around the additional healing from mastery.
EDIT: The concept behind the EF double gust appears to be triage based, that you specifically target the lower health targets for higher healing while cleave helps with stabilizing.
The triage perspective in this case does make sense, thanks for the explanation.
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Mastery redesign, mw is the only healer where a good chunk of our heals aren’t represented by our mastery this really should change. I’d like it if it was something mana based ie do more healing with more or less mana maybe have a mana generation component since mw has always been a healer that had to think about mana.
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mw needs a defining utility of the level that a raid leader would be tempted to have a mistweaver for specific fights or in general. I would say things like spirit link totem, barrier, devotion aura, and such would be examples of a defining utility.
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I’d like more aoe options that didn’t rely on rng. Maybe a split soothing mist that copied spells to both targets or an improved baseline chi burst.
Go back to Chi + oldschool mana tea, but keep some of the modern spell changes and incorporate them into it.
For example, Essence Font could be an AoE chi spender. Instead of a channel though, either a buff on you that shoots out the bolts for the duration while you do other things or perhaps an object you create that spews bolts out.
Since dealing damage as a healer is now more of a thing than it was back in MoP/WoD, making CJL a bigger tool for mistweaving so they can contribute damage without fistweaving would be nice. Mechanics I’ve suggested before would be to add a CJL element to TFT that makes it do more damage and AoE + maybe have a mechanic where TFT cooldowns faster while channeling CJL.
I’d also like to see a mastery change, but I’m not sure what exactly it should look like. The simplest change I think would be to keep gust, but instead of doing what it does now, you build stacks doing everything and every X stacks releases a gust of mist as a smart heal on target within 40 yards. IE: every tick of CJL/SooM, every kick and punch, some things like Revival could generate a large number of stacks that release several gusts at once. Vivify/EM could generate enough to release a gust every cast still.
i miss way of the crane
there are very few moments as empowering as a healer than having a 1min button that turns your entire party invincible
Keep: The melee healer identity, that way you have two options, burst and builder/spender with paladin, and hot maintenance and passive healing with monk.
Do not Keep: I guess relying on RN setup to cast vivify? TBH there’s not really that much of an issue i have with the toolkit as is, just want to see it more melee focused as a counterpart to paladin.
I would say the two big things i would want to look at going forward is fleshing out the fistweaving mechanics and giving the mw monk more ways to manage their mana. like make Spirit of the Crane baseline and provide an alternative talent to replace it. (I say Spirit over Mana Tea because of my desire to see monk more melee oriented, but mana tea baseline is also an option)
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First point isn’t Mistweaver specific, but mostly a healer wide balancing issue. Currently, 3 classes bring major raid CDs that give them a niche: shaman, paladin and discipline priest. I know other specs have raid CDs, but they aren’t something no one else can cover and therefore aren’t a reason to take the spec.
This lack of a raid CD (I’m not counting Revival, its a mass dispel that priest can cover while bringing other CDs) would be almost forgiven if their healing or damage throughput outclassed the specs that brought CDs. Currently though, the 3 specs bringing the unique raid CDs also have the highest throughput on logs. Now this in part is because the best players are playing them, but the trend continues down below the 75th percentile mark so its clearly a tuning issue on some level. So why bring the non-CD spec when it doesn’t even heal or damage as much.
I’ve come to embrace MW as the stacked healer through fistweaving. You are really good at healing a packed group when specced right (especially if Necrolord) but lose value as the group spreads out. Let’s reinforce that niche even further. Here’s one idea for a pseudo-unique raid CD that would fit with MW’s current playstyle and abilities:
Ring of Protection
CD: 90 Seconds
Area covered: Same as ring of peace
Effect: 20% damage reduction to all those in the ring for 8 seconds
Yep, it’s a targeted devotion aura with aura mastery running. Covers a smaller area, but is up in half the time. Your group moves out of it? Too bad, try again in 90 seconds. It’s slightly higher damage reduction makes up for the fact we lack blessings and the baseline damage reduction of the only other melee healer.
As far as what I would like to see gone, Essence Font. MW plays as a fairly fast paced melee healer to me, so why break it while I run around with my hand in the air for a few seconds. For all I care, make it instant cast instead of channeled. It would fit with the rest of the spec better
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Melee healers are dead to me. Might be fun for people who play PvE exclusively, but in PvP, having to get close to your enemy in order to heal is counter intuitive.
Same goes for additional resource management. I’ve been a Holy Paladin main since WotLK, and while I was “okay” with having holy power back in Cata, the moment I saw it making a return in SL, I rerolled Mistweaver + Disc Priest. Combo-point systems tend to be overly restrictive and clunky.
“You can’t cast that yet” - is it on GCD? No? Is it on CD? No? Am I out of mana? No? Is my target LoS? No? Oh. I need another combo point.
I would like to see Yulon gone - replaced with something useful, and on a 1.5 minute CD. Would also like to have something to press while stunned.
I quite like Mistweaver’s mastery. It provides bonus healing which is more than what the other healers get from their respective masteries.
I honestly don’t think that Mistweaver requires a complete rework. It plays fine for the most part, just requires a few tweaks.
Mistweaver historically performed fine with chi, and with pvp talents it’d be even easier to balance. As someone that likes m+ and arenas as mistweaver I find the current design pretty awful and boring for both. It’s less noticeable in arenas just by the nature of the content but mistweavers way of healing is simpler than any and every other healer by a mile.
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Disclaimer that I’ve only played monk since Legion, and it’s never been my main until Shadowlands, but I play it at a decently high level for all three specs in both PvE and PvP.
I for one really love the current MW identity and play style and disagree with those that say it isn’t unique or interesting. It’s my favorite healing spec to play whether I’m fist weaving (PvE for me) or mist weaving (PvP for me). But it does have some serious problems, particularly in PvP.
Trying to give it answers to other healers niches isn’t the right way to go in my opinion, it would just further homogenize the healers. Raid/party wide damage reductions are covered, how about a raid/party wide dmg buff?
Haven’t seen much on Revival, other than it sucks… but how about giving it a dps bonus? Something like, “friendly targets healed gain a damage increase based on the amount of healing done, up to 10%, for 10 seconds”. This would give it an interesting mechanic, but prevent it just being a default button press to go along with bloodlust (since maximizing the healing done is a requirement).
Lots of posts on increasing damage output for fist weaving and I agree wholeheartedly. Boost the damage and lower the healing to keep it basically where it is from a HPS standpoint. Full fistweaver build + leggo does just fine in raids and M+ from a healing perspective, but it feels bad to put in all that effort and subject yourself to melee dangers and still only do ~1k dps.
But MW has two very different available play styles, so what about folks that like to stay back and focus on heals? Is there some way to make Crackling Jade Lightning effective dps? How about a stacking bonus to it’s damage based on heals cast? Something like, “For every Vivify, Enveloping Mist, or Renewing Mist cast, increase the damage of crackling jade lightning by X%, up to X%”. Incidentally, I think this would make MW much more viable in arena and pvp. One big thing we lack, ignoring survive-ability is any meaningful damage to increase pressure during goes. Not sure where you’d put something like this, but if feels like it belongs as a talent choice rather than being baked in to the class.
Life cocoon needs a buff.
PVP specific… Fort brew/Dampen Harm while stunned. Maybe add something to the Life Cocoon pvp talent that procs a mini cocoon (say 50% strength) on yourself if you hit ~35% health? Once every 2-3 mins?
I absolutely loved the “crazy” idea @Erroll had to give MW stagger. I think that would be awesome, and if you did something like let direct heals of Vivify clear 50% of stagger (rather than having purifying brew). This alone could potentially fix the survival issues in PvP and make Fistweaving more viable/less punishing in PvE. Think we’d need MW stagger to work for all damage types tho!
Night Fae specific: Faeline stomp should either not cost mana, or should have a lower cost, but provide static healing such as, “Deals 3,500 damage and 7,000 healing split between all targets or players. Damage and healing are increased for each target struck, up to 5 enemies and 5 players.” This would make it feel good to press in any situation, single target or AoE, and add some thought to where you want to stomp to get the most benefit in some situations.
Please, do not give us an additional resource. Holy Power is why my paladin is on the bench for SL.
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I think MW needs to be just tweaked and left alone. They have overhauled this spec so many times cause they are unhappy with how people can get good with it.