M+ leavers result in bricked keys, more often than not.
PUG Normal / Heroic / LFR / TW leavers do not result in failed runs. They are replaced by the queue system.
If bans are appropriate for M+ leavers who can’t be replaced, why do we get 30 min bans for queued PUG leavers who can be replaced?
Seems disproportionate. Leave the time-based punishments for people whose behavior actually hurts groups.
This isn’t a problem.
How does that sound disproportionate?
Low difficulty queued content = 30 minute wait
High difficulty non-qeueued content = multiple days(?)
Seems perfectly proportionate. My only complaint is the vagueness
…for you. Getting a 30 minute deserter debuff because your internet shorted out is … let’s say, counter-productive. Especially when your toon got replaced in the dungeon 10 seconds after you D/C.
I say it’s a problem. Therefore it’s a problem. If it isn’t a problem for you, then why even comment on the post, other than to troll?
Because the time is flat out wasted in a M+ while in queued content you get a replacement in a few minutes at most.
That seems kind of obvious to me.
But there is also the fact that people aren’t being banned. They are being suspended.
There is also the fact that they aren’t being suspended for leaving a single run, they are being suspended for repeat and intentional behavior.
You are given a debuff for leaving any queued run at any time. So as it stands the punishment for leaving a single queued group is significantly more than the punishment for leaving a single M+ (because there is no punishment for leaving a single M+).
When someone leaves a queued PUG, they don’t lose 30 minutes. Sometimes they lose no time at all. It’s not appropriate or proportionate for someone who leaves queued non-mythic content to get a 30 minute debuff. There’s low or no impact to the group, and isn’t worth a 30-minute debuff.
I agree. Especially after bosses are down.
You should not get a debuff for leaving queued content after contributing to that queued content.
I would also like to remind people that this change occurred because people were upset about others leaving queued content after they got a trinket and the other person (leaver) did not.
Degens fighting degens for the degen crown.
You get a 30 min penalty from leaving a random queue because they don’t want people to dodge certain dungeons when the whole point is for the queue to be random. The same as they would rather not have to constantly refill other content as this still take time.
While getting suspended or banned for griefing has totally be in the game since the start, they simply re-instated that about M+ leavers that do it specifically with that in mind. You don’t get a penalty for leaving 1 M+, you get one when you have done it so many times that the system can only see this as griefing.
You get the same debuff if you leave after queuing for a specific dungeon so I don’t think the “random dungeon” part is a factor. It’s the group being randomly created that is of significance here.
You also get this debuff for leaving LFR after having to queue twice when your first queue is a fill. LFR is not a random dungeon (raid) but it is a random group.
“Random” in “Random dungeon finder” refers to the group and not the dungeon imo.
This is the truth.
Let’s just say modern blizzard doesn’t think through it’s quantifiable decisions very well.
If you think about it, all the modern wow team does really, is reskin what was once a great game, and nurfs content and fun in bitesize pieces patch over patch.
Throw in the monkey wrench that is under-developed decision-making from people not fully qualified for their new jobs, and you get things like banning leavers, nurfing PCT, and poor system design like how anniversary bronze rolled out.
Yea I added for that part, there are still other reasons but the point is more about making the system works and stopping degen behavior than to really punish people with a 30 min timer.
I’ve never considered “contributing to this group as far as to the point that our mutual goals end” to be degen behavior. Not where random dungeons are concerned at least.
If there is no reason to hold people hostage in a M+ key that won’t be timed and give them score then there is no reason to hold people hostage in a random group that they can no longer benefit from either.
Thing is, that’s not usually the case why people leave random queues. It’s to dodge certain dungeons they don’t want to deal with, spam dungeons for a specific boss which forces groups to be left with trying to refill their spot, or to generally be disruptive. When the only way you could leave without getting a debuff was to get kicked, tanks especially would hold groups hostage until they kicked them (had this happen to me a few times just because a dungeon popped up they didn’t want).
It’s within their right to leave, just as it’s within their right to get consequences for that.
Have to keep it vague so griefers and trolls don’t get the answer handed to them on how to circumvent the ban from happening again.
The reason that the debuff change was made was specifically because of people leaving Ara-kara after not getting a trinket drop from the first boss. Meaning you now have a 30 minute debuff for leaving a group you contributed to boss kills on because people were mad about waiting 30 seconds to fill.
It had nothing to do with people leaving dungeons or holding hostages in dungeons they didn’t want to get in the first place.
Deserter debuff makes sense - except for Silvershard Mines, everyone should be able to leave that penalty free.
It feels so claustrophobic. The other BGs have more of an open air feeling.
Because M+ effects E-sports (LMAO) dungeons do not. Everything Micro-Blizz does is thought of from a $ pov.
You do realize that the dungeon debuff has been a thing for a /while/, so while it was recently implemented to the severity that it is because of that instance, there’s also good reasons in the past why it was implemented. Wrath for example, tanks left dungeons obsessively during the random queue if a dungeon they didn’t like popped up, forcing that group to either disperse and wait another 20-30 minute timer if they’re DPS, or wait for another tank which also took quite a while. A 30+ wait is around the same time it takes for a DPS to get a queue pop in many instances, sometimes longer, so it’s a fair consequence.
Yes. I’m not saying the debuff shouldn’t exist. I’m saying the reason it was expanded was bad and that both sides were babies about it. Neither the people leaving nor the people filling have much of a leg to stand on imo.
Nah, I don’t think it is. People leaving groups in LFG has reduced dramatically now and now people can do runs without knowing someone’s going to leave within five minutes after a specific boss dies or a specific dungeon pops up.