You’re explaining the simplest terms to a brick wall. The person can’t accept when their logic is disproved and continues to be in denial. Some gamers are hopeless. I wish you the best of luck with this lost case.
I’m not familiar with OSHA as I don’t live in the US, where I am the rules are “If there is an overhead hazard you have to wear a hardhat”. The cranes are the overhead hazard, so they don’t have to wear a hardhat while inside the cabin.
PPE absolutely makes the job easier. Have you ever tried to use a welder or a metal grinder without the appropriate PPE?
I mean that’s what the addons are, multiple redundancy to protect the raid from the random 1-2 idiots that tank the floor every raid.(More if it’s a pug)
Cute edit btw
OG post was “addons make it easier” not “Safer”.
From what I can tell, you’re arguing semantics rather than actually taking a counter-position.
/facepalm
Read what he actually said.
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Cabins aren’t necessarily rated to protect the occupant from falling hazards, hence the necessity according to law to wear one even inside if anything can fall.
Now you’re quibbling over specific PPE, which whereas the vast majority of PPE is CYA, along with the other part of the analogy: guardrails, safety markings and signs, etc. Additionally, welding requires the ability to see, so a filtered glass isn’t even PPE at that point. The PPE is the proper helmet material, the proper rated filtered glass, the gloves and clothing that are flame retardant and spark resistant, etc etc.
So you’ve entirely backtracked from ease to redundant safety measures, equivalent to forming strategies that compensate for slow, terrible, or otherwise wipe-worthy play… nice.
Did you miss the line above the edited quote? /facepalm
Honestly, all addons do in raids is enable the parse-chasers to push a bit higher. Most people won’t gain much from a threat meter or any other addon.
Addons are just a way for Blizzard to cheap out on building their own decent UI with enough built-in customization options. They offloaded that to fans who work for free.
Once again, effort and difficulty are not synonymous. Nor are effort and skill.
Addons make raid encounters take less effort. They do not make them less difficult. They do not make them require less skill.
I mean… why wouldn’t you? Every UI update after Vanilla incorporated the most popular addon customizations, and going further than that, class mechanics were simplified or changed based on the fact that addons were seen as critical to manage things (think PallyPower and the change from Blessings to Blessings and Hands).
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Classic is obviously super hard, dude. You can tell because everyone uses Loot Councils and those came about to get the right gear on the right players so you can bust through progression walls so obviously it’s been extra hard this whole time.
To be fair, one of the definitions of difficult is: “Requiring considerable effort or skill.”
Effort and difficulty aren’t synonymous, but difficulty can be a measurement of necessary effort.
Classic is easy IF you have a competent raid team that does what they’re told.
Why use a threat addon, play to the meta, stack world buffs and flask ?
Easy, why would you knowingly give yourself a handicap ? It makes no sense to do that, on another note DBM isn’t needed at all at the moment as there’s pretty much nothing i (as a mage) need to know that impacts me. Baron, Vael or Firemaw i just look at debuffs and see if i got the thing, easy.
Oh I think it was damn clever of them to do it. And I laugh at luddites who grunt “addon bad!”
Addons were intended and Blizzard spent a lot of time over the years optimizing how they work. As you’ve said, they’ve even incorporated some on them into the default UI. It’s pretty ignorant to claim that addons are bad for the game.
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I wasn’t talking about Classic. As many have noted, Classic raids are doable by just about anyone with very little prep required. I still think your expectation that everyone needs to have studied before the raid is silly. This is a game, not a college course.
Been saying this for years. People cry cause content is easy, talk about how they like to min/max etc, but they’re literally just using every tool on earth to make the game easy.
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Some addons make the game less frustrating and tedious. Dying to a mechanic that has a timer isn’t exactly interesting. This isn’t Dark Souls, you can’t just be better.
The very crux is that raid design in retail does not appeal to the masses. The fact that you perceived the idea that addons are cheats as the crux indicates that this point was a needless distraction. That’s why I set it aside. The crux of the argument remains. Retail raid design is not appealing to the average player. Some, like me, feel like you basically have to cheat to successfully raid. Others, like you, feel you need to study to successfully raid. In both cases, the game transitions from diversion to work.
You don’t though. And in groups where everyone is on the same page, I don’t look up fights before first pull in retail.
You’re not gonna win the first pull, and that’s never been the intention, to be able to win with one pull blind. But you absolutely can find a like-minded group to do blind prog with. And that’s what happens on the PTRs in the guilds that make the guides!
Hell, the dungeon journal on live even makes it reasonable to prog that way. It gives you all the info you need to design a strategy. These groups exist. If you want to play with them, go play with them. I don’t think it’s fair to force others to play my way or go in blind, though.
I don’t think you’re right about raid design in retail, either. BFA is a hot mess but raid design is one of the few things it does well. And the statement it doesn’t appeal to the masses is hilariously ignorant. You have no data at all to support this, and there’s plenty of data to support there’s a large audience of WoW players that do like the raid design, based on participation rates.
The proof is in the huge spike in subs that accompanied Classic. Why aren’t all of us subbed to retail if the raid , raid, and more raid design is so appealing?
Overemphasis of the raid through 4 difficulties, and a huge amount of chores you have to do just to stay relevant. There’s also a huge, boring slog to get through to catch any alt up.
For me too the gearing system (azerite/corruption) is just too awful too.
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Because the core gameplay is hot garbage, the pvp is a mess, azerite is a never ending chore, corruptions are random rng garbage scaling into oblivion, pvp has no vendors, etc?
There’s plenty of reasons to hate BFA while the raid design is still good.
Edit: Also, we all are subbed to retail. It is not possible to sub to just classic.
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It is like asking to level whitout weapons in classic/retail if you think leveling is easy. Level a hunter whitout a pet if you think leveling hunter is too easy etc.
I dont think crippilling yourself is the better way to play in a game which the whole endgame point is character progression and optimaztion.
If you go for it… Classic fights will most likely still be easy but just take longer because they are very limited mechanically. I mean remove all addons and all you will have is basically the tanks counting stacks and everyone waiting for 3/4 sunders depending on the tank gear. If he has a thunderfury then nothing changes because the amount of threath it does is enormous lol, and prolly some baron’s wipes.
Addons only give away information which the game already provides, most of them just read the combat log which can be altered and filtered in several ways. Anyway that is a lot of help. No denying that, but then again i dont see the fun on beign willingful ignorant.
If you dont know the fights and mechs, use addons and dont make people lose their time nor your time. Hours and hours of tank spank can be tire/boresome too.
Playing a game which restricts UI configurations is generally terrible and stale.
Raided classic MC and BWL 1,3hr each in a raid where most people didnt have any addon and 0 world buffs, gamers nowadays are simple better than gamers 15 years ago. And have better machines and internet.
I am Braziliain and back in 2005 my latency playing in NA servers was around 500ms and nowadays is barely 150ms.
The game is fine, a new player to the mmorpg genre wont think the game is THAT easy. But its mechanichs are obviously outdated compared to the rest of the market, remove addons and nothing will change tbh it is pretty ez to adapt and some(most) cases not even necessary.