M+ in BfA would be fine if they didn't burn out players with EVERY SINGLE mob pack having some sort of ridiculous OP mechanic preventing groups from doing large pulls.
They tried to artificially make dungeons harder, the result is overtuned trash that makes pugging unnecessarily challenging and chain running dungeons straight up exhausting.
They are not FUN. Dungeons should have easier trash packs woven in allowing groups to make big pulls.. that's what's FUN!
Huge, ridiculous pulls in Legion and utilizing class abilities is what made them FUN. BfA is a let down.
Pulling 30 mobs that don't do anything and aoeing them down while the tank runs away is about the total opposite of fun.
It's not in any way possible to make a fun dungeon that is designed to be done repeatedly in as short a time as possible last forever.
Keep in mind we already get bored with raids, which are 2-3x longer even if sped run, not designed to be sped run, and a new one is given every patch or so.
Mythic+ is shorter and designed to be sped through, meaning you're going to run into it's repetitive nature far sooner.
11/08/2018 12:44 PMPosted by
Boskins
M+ would be a lot more fun without a timer.
Imagine if you could actually progress through higher difficulty levels like a mini-raid instead of this speedrun crap?
The timer is the “necessary evil” part of M+. Without it there is no way to gauge whether your key should upgrade or downgrade after a run. Let me provide an example: week 1 of M+ my guild took a +12 Waycrest Manor key and got it done. It took almost 3 hours and over 200 deaths. Should we have gotten a +13 key just for getting it done? I’d argue no. Part of progressing in M+ is beating the timer to push your key.
Doesn't need to give/use a keystone. Just choose from a drop-down menu the level of your choosing - just like grifts that this whole thing is based on anyway.
M+ in BfA would be fine if they didn't burn out players with EVERY SINGLE mob pack having some sort of ridiculous OP mechanic preventing groups from doing large pulls.
They tried to artificially make dungeons harder, the result is overtuned trash that makes pugging unnecessarily challenging and chain running dungeons straight up exhausting.
They are not FUN. Dungeons should have easier trash packs woven in allowing groups to make big pulls.. that's what's FUN!
Huge, ridiculous pulls in Legion and utilizing class abilities is what made them FUN. BfA is a let down.
Pulling 30 mobs that don't do anything and aoeing them down while the tank runs away is about the total opposite of fun.
So you're saying pulling each mob pack 1 at a time is better? Rofl
Beating a dungeon timer by doing a ridiculous pull and survivng is what's rewarding. Coordinating a huge pull and pulling it off is fun.
You here trying to tell me players don't like blowing all of their big DPS CD's on a pack of 30 mobbs and watching the damage meters explode isn't fun is hilarious. People live and die by the dps meter, and watching yourself do 50k+ dps is really fulfilling.
There are a lot of ways you could implement a system that works for everyone.
At the end of the day, I play to have fun and don’t play what I don’t find fun.
The MoP scenarios were cool, not sure why the M+ system couldn’t use something similar. Also not sure how adding options would hurt the high-end players- but it’s also not my game and the trend seems to be towards removing options, so adding them is probably a pipe-dream at this point.
You here trying to tell me players don't like blowing all of their big DPS CD's on a pack of 30 mobbs and watching the damage meters explode isn't fun is hilarious. People live and die by the dps meter, and watching yourself do 50k+ dps is really fulfilling.
I can't believe people don't enjoy that. My friends and I ran mythic 0 for a mount run. We did that, consequently I was doing 38k dps for 2 mins whittling down the 25 or so mobs the tank had which was a blast. The rogue was at 42k lol, it was awesome.
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Pulling 30 mobs that don't do anything and aoeing them down while the tank runs away is about the total opposite of fun.
So you're saying pulling each mob pack 1 at a time is better? Rofl
Beating a dungeon timer by doing a ridiculous pull and survivng is what's rewarding. Coordinating a huge pull and pulling it off is fun.
You here trying to tell me players don't like blowing all of their big DPS CD's on a pack of 30 mobbs and watching the damage meters explode isn't fun is hilarious. People live and die by the dps meter, and watching yourself do 50k+ dps is really fulfilling.
I'm saying using your toolkits to actually handle the mechanics of the mob pack is a lot more fun than machine gunning aoe dps while the tank runs away.
It's obvious most player like to arcade style explode everything with as little thought as possible though so I'm not surprised more people would enjoy that style.
I wish we could mass pull again. As a frost DK I would be in heaven.
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So you're saying pulling each mob pack 1 at a time is better? Rofl
Beating a dungeon timer by doing a ridiculous pull and survivng is what's rewarding. Coordinating a huge pull and pulling it off is fun.
You here trying to tell me players don't like blowing all of their big DPS CD's on a pack of 30 mobbs and watching the damage meters explode isn't fun is hilarious. People live and die by the dps meter, and watching yourself do 50k+ dps is really fulfilling.
I'm saying using your toolkits to actually handle the mechanics of the mob pack is a lot more fun than machine gunning aoe dps while the tank runs away.
It's obvious most player like to arcade style explode everything with as little thought as possible though so I'm not surprised more people would enjoy that style.
Lol. Maybe on lower keys. Trying to pull huge packs on high keys is an entire different experience. In Legion M+ changed big time in 20+ keys. So many mechanics you could virtually ignore on lower keys, but moving up into 20+ things changed, suddenly you had to pay attention to a lot more. It felt like progression, and moving into another category of players.
11/08/2018 01:10 PMPosted by
Berrye
You here trying to tell me players don't like blowing all of their big DPS CD's on a pack of 30 mobbs and watching the damage meters explode isn't fun is hilarious. People live and die by the dps meter, and watching yourself do 50k+ dps is really fulfilling.
I can't believe people don't enjoy that. My friends and I ran mythic 0 for a mount run. We did that, consequently I was doing 38k dps for 2 mins whittling down the 25 or so mobs the tank had which was a blast. The rogue was at 42k lol, it was awesome.
Exactly. It's like Blizz has lost sight of that fact that this game should be FUN.
Lower Kara, pulling horseman with all the trash + lust and trying to survive was so freaking fun, even when things didn't go our way.
BfA dungeons are so linear and lame with trash. It's totally cool to have dangerous mobbs, but having them in virtually every pack is exhausting and lame.
Tame down the trash, this will make lower keys more friendly for pugs. There will always be MDI level teams out there that will outperform everything. Trying to tune dungeons around those players leaves the majority of the population having a dismal time trying to deal with overtuned garbage.
I pugged almost exclusively in Legion, and was always stoked to run M+. In BfA I ONLY run with friends, and it's more of a chore rather than fun.
M+ would be a lot more fun without a timer.
Imagine if you could actually progress through higher difficulty levels like a mini-raid instead of this speedrun crap?
You can in order to get your chest. The sad part is the keys don't progress if we miss the timer. I wish completion progressed, and the timer was scrapped.
M+ in BfA would be fine if they didn't burn out players with EVERY SINGLE mob pack having some sort of ridiculous OP mechanic preventing groups from doing large pulls.
They tried to artificially make dungeons harder, the result is overtuned trash that makes pugging unnecessarily challenging and chain running dungeons straight up exhausting.
They are not FUN. Dungeons should have easier trash packs woven in allowing groups to make big pulls.. that's what's FUN!
Huge, ridiculous pulls in Legion and utilizing class abilities is what made them FUN. BfA is a let down.
How is giving the mobs abilities that you have to deal with "artificial" difficulty? It literally is objectively more difficult.
And no, you shouldn't be able to just AoE down half a dungeon.
I'm enjoying m+ a lot. And plenty of people I know enjoy it a lot, too, and prefer it over raiding. Maybe the key to enjoying it is to just not suck at it, idk.
Meh. I think the players having fun (low and high keys both) have a steady group to run with. Like everything else in this game it's about playing with friends.
The problem with Mythic Plus in that regard is it's even more clique-y than Raiding.
Hey...a post that isn't 404 yet! Watch out....the the devs are not tanks judging from their thin skins this week.
Less M and more map please. Less RNG and more RPG please. Less squishes, prunes and more abilities please. Less races and more customization for existing races please. Less WQ and more profession please. I guess what I am asking is for this game to become a MMORPG again....please.
M+ without a timer would result in every group just bringing as much CC as possible. Then you would have classes/specs with limited/no CC demanding CC cause they can’t get into groups otherwise.
You’d probably also have ridiculous runs like 4 blood DKs and a healer taking forever but cakewalking really high levels.
I pugged almost exclusively in Legion, and was always stoked to run M+. In BfA I ONLY run with friends, and it's more of a chore rather than fun.
Yep, I mean, when is the last time you remembered that you totally dispelled that thing or interrupted that spell and it was glorious? Never? Yeah, me either :(
M+ in BfA would be fine if they didn't burn out players with EVERY SINGLE mob pack having some sort of ridiculous OP mechanic preventing groups from doing large pulls.
They tried to artificially make dungeons harder, the result is overtuned trash that makes pugging unnecessarily challenging and chain running dungeons straight up exhausting.
They are not FUN. Dungeons should have easier trash packs woven in allowing groups to make big pulls.. that's what's FUN!
Huge, ridiculous pulls in Legion and utilizing class abilities is what made them FUN. BfA is a let down.
How is giving the mobs abilities that you have to deal with "artificial" difficulty? It literally is objectively more difficult.
And no, you shouldn't be able to just AoE down half a dungeon.
Arguably not. What's more difficult, pulling 5 mob packs of 5 together with a few difficult mobbs and surviving or pulling 1 pack of 5 mobb with multiple mobbs with punishing abilities? You can't say for sure either way or another because there are so many other factors. But what you can say is pulling more is more fun, and that's what it should be about.
You act like doing huge pulls is easy. Like it's just pull half the dungeon and AoE it down without worry. lol
Good groups are going to excel in either scenario, whether it be easier trash and bigger pulls or more difficult trash and smaller pulls. The difference is how much fun you're having.
Making trash easier will make M+ more puggable and fun for everyone. Sure top groups will be able to do higher keys than they are doing now.. so what? They're not getting higher ilvl loot for doing so....
My 2c but blizzard screwed over M+ because they tried to do too much for the average player.
Pick any 2:
-Pass/Fail
-Big pulls
-Extremely deadly baseline mechanics
I don’t like the timer either you don’t get enjoy the dungeon at all
M+ would be a lot more fun without a timer.
Imagine if you could actually progress through higher difficulty levels like a mini-raid instead of this speedrun crap?
Without a time it would take no skill whatsoever.
"DH 1 imprison skull, DH 2 imprison moon, DH 3 imprison blue, kk pulling 1, please spam stun" rinse and repeat 300 times.
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