I’ve said the exact same thing, and then got told that it was MY comments that were petty and vindictive, salty, w/e. PF2 is completely absurd and doesn’t even need to be in the game. WoD didn’t have a PF2, so why do we have it now? Because the devs were butthurt over the no flying backlash and wanted to be spiteful and childish. No other reason
EDIT: Here is the post in question that I commented about : 8 rep grinds for flying - #211 by Ollin-uther
Blizzard killed open world PvP the day they made instanced PvP the most rewarding format. That was before flying was ever released.
Also, for everyone tossing around the word compromise, shouldn’t a compromise consist of a reasonable agreement that both parties had a say in?
Pathfinder was not a compromise, it was a hail mary to save a game from collapse after a 3rd party site announced flying was not going to come back ever via an interview. It was likely always going to be what we got, but they baited us with the no more flying, ever statement and then generously gave us back flight with pathfinder. It was not a compromise, it was them getting us to eat up a watered down version of WoW that claims to give us things like “immersion” when it reality we get convoluted terrain designed to keep us logged in longer.
Compare the terrain in Vanilla to WoD.
Vanilla which was actually designed with the player in mind has lots of open, mostly flat, areas to explore using vertical terrain only when appropriate.
Draenor is filled with dead-ends, mountains and cliffs that drop us to our death funneling us into narrow pathways so we play how we are supposed to instead of how we want to.
I think Hornswoggled would be a more apt description of what we got during WoD. Tons of cut content, told we were playing the game wrong, and the great gift of Pathfinder because the B Team couldn’t handle designing a zone like Stormpeaks or a sub-zone like Ogri’la.
Only thing I say needs to be changed in when flying becomes available.
Its fine to have us explore and do content without it. Its just fine to have
pathfinder. But flying should be in game, and obtainable, from day one
of expansions.
Precisely what I said. No more Pathfinder part 2. Stick with the original requirements for Pathfinder 1 and leave it at that…Pathfinder
Or we could leave it as is and realize that pathfinder is already the perfect compromise for flight.
Players still have a choice, play the game and earn the achieve for flight. Or don’t earn the achieve and don’t get flight. This is how games generally operate. They have rewards that players can only earn through playing the game.
You really expect players to grind Pathfinder, then pay a total of 1 million gold to fly? That isn’t a compromise… it’s highway robbery.
You forgot the part where we have to wait until the expansion is half over to have the chance to “earn” flight back. Generally games have rewards you can earn and work towards at your own pace, or at least in a reasonable time frame.
Waiting until we are halfway back around to not flying in the next expansion isn’t exactly reasonable.
We have to wait until all the explorable content is released you mean. Being able to wait for things is an important aspect of life. There are plenty of places in game to satisfy your need for instant gratification. It’s ok and good for the game to have some things that take time to get.
I’ve explored all the released content more than enough. I have 6 characters who are exalted with every faction in BfA. I should be able to fly in the current zones by now. The fact that I can not makes no sense.
I’m not asking for flight in every zone going forward to be unlocked, but everything released during 8.0 should have flight unlocked no later than 8.1. Delaying it until 8.2 is just being done as a power move by the devs because they have such a deep hatred for flight.
Pathfinder part 2 could easily just be for the new zones, while Pathfinder 1 could be for the current zones.
Pathfinder is like a double edged sword.
While it makes the current players play longer, it also discourages and deters new/wanna return to WOW players. You are not gonna believe the number of people thinking of playing WOW again but not doing so because of the WOD, Legion and BFA pathfinders.
just need options for completion instead of forcing everyone into a single type of play
obviously there is the big gold paying option, perhaps delayed a bit
there is the questing option
there should also be viable options via instanced pve and pvp content
possibly pet battles and crafting as well
this forced single path just pisses off so many players
wow used to be the game of options and multiple paths, now they force everyone to make things take longer
So, we have this thing… They want to give us the ability of flying just halfway the xpac (regardless of how hard/easy are the requirements) to make the content they design be harder to be completed (basically WQs and alt leveling).
I really like the convenience of flight, but it is a FACT that this convenience trivializes a lot of things they designed, from content mechanics to even catching closer details of the artwork of the zones.
Said that, I keep wondering if the ‘outrage’ would be the same if they in fact gave flying just after hitting 120, but they presented a world with actual hazards to flying, such as more aerial enemies, zones with bad weather, or ground players with actual anti-air tools, all this to the point that would make the player question their safety on “exposing” themselves to the convenience of approaching the content flying.
BC, Wrath, and Cata all had aerial enemies for flyers to contend with so that’s nothing new. As to the idea of weather affecting flight, that would be really interesting, but would also take a lot of time to code into the game and set it up to work properly, and unfortunately the B team has been becoming more and more lazy with their approach to making new zones and terrain, which is WHY they originally wanted to remove flying from the game to begin with. Giving ground players actual anti-air tools has already been done in the form of the items that dismount fliers, albiet the fact that they didn’t work on max level players and had a rather limited range. I remember the Booterang item that we were able to obtain in Tanaan Jungle during WoD, and then there was a turtle shell of some sort that did the same thing in Legion I think. All of your ideas are good don’t get me wrong, but most of them have already been used or put into the game. The weather idea could be really cool though
Yeah, I was aware that some of the suggestions already existed in some (wonky) way or another… I was sort of suggesting a new approach to them perhaps.
But hey, this would require a lot of work and thinking out-of-the-box, and essentially taking design risks… And honestly I’m not expecting much of that from the current developer leader.
Maybe WoW can see another day when Ion finally steps out of his position, like Ghostcrawler did back there. I don’t know if it will improve or not but I think any change is better than the busted formula they’re following.
I don’t see many opposed to pathfinder itself. What we hate is the petty and spiteful time gate between part 1 and 2.
[Idea for flight compromise]
Blizzard has no reason to “compromise” with you or me, and you do not represent the whole playerbase.
Blizzard compares WoW to “other MMOS on the market”, not “what some subset of players imagine”. It is competing for revenue with other MMOS. It is not competing for revenue with “what some players want”. Revenue matters: it is supposed to, because Blizzard is a corporation.
Is there a better MMO in the whole world, for flying? Is there an MMO that gives more flying and easier-to-unlock flying, in more zones? I don’t know of any.
Apparently you’ve never heard of FFXIV then. That game has flying and guess what? As soon as you hit the appropriate level and do whatever quests are necessary to gain flying and obtain a flying mount you can fly!!! NO rep grinds, NO time gate…Nada. And back when they announced the “no flying again ever” statement during WoD, FFXIV was releasing a new expansion that featured flying!! People left WoW for FFXIV in droves at that point, so much so that the shareholders told Ion and his team that like it or not they’d better give us flying back or else…so then we got Pathfinder, a hail mary to save the game before it nosedived into the crapper due to the massive exodus of players. So yes there ARE other MMOs that have flying and are nowhere near as restricted or time gated in order to obtain it. Blizzard is going to learn one way or the other, that if they continue down this road and continue to drag their feet in giving us flying back on every expansion, that people will eventually decide they’ve had enough of the BS and leave. I’m not subjecting myself to any more of it. I’m sick of rep grinds and tired of their continuous limiting said rep gains to WQs and emissary turn ins, because it’s all designed to make us play longer to pad their MAU metrics. That’s why they don’t have rep tabards anymore because people were able to grind rep so much easier and faster, but the thing is, people ENJOYED playing that way because it wasn’t such a chore and didn’t feel like a grind. People had OPTIONS. Seems like lately the game has become engineered in such a way that the rep gains and rewards are being spoonfed to us in meager amounts because that’s how the devs want us to play. It’s become “you’re going to play the game how WE want you to play, not how YOU want to play” and I’m sick of it
Wait, so people should complain about things they don’t play and aren’t knowledgable about, and not things that they are invested in?
Doesn’t have much to do with the topic at hand, but this kind of threw me for a loop. Wat?
No…was not. “Required” does not mean what you think it means. You (not you specifically but in general) may feel internal pressure to do so but flying is not “required” for anything.
And my post may not have been specifically at you but it is now…just because you may want to stay on the ground but will fly if it’s available means you shouldn’t get to post negative things about flying.
No, but you have to be invested enough to not do the thing you’re complaining about. People who dont want to do something but will anyway because “everyone else does it” should either stick to their guns or shut up. If it’s not important enough for you to stick to your conviction dont try to force it on me.