For context, here’s the Outlaw Build I’m currently looking at:
Questions:
- Will Ambush produce 3 combo points base, totaling 6 when it double-hits via “Hidden Opportunity”?
- Will this increase to 4/8 combo points when considering “Seal Fate” and the fact that Ambush is a combo point generator?
- Can more than one combo point be charged via “Heavy Hitter” with consecutive uses/hits of Ambush?
- Does “Heavy Hitter” charge on Ambush use, or Ambush dealing damage (does it work with “Hidden Opportunity”?
- Is there any concern in PvP about the potential to fit 6 heavy-hitting Ambushes within the first 3 seconds after existing stealth? (See “Subterfuge” + other talents which benefit Ambush).
- Will “Fan the Hammer” additional half-cost pistol shot procs work to trigger “Audacity”?
- Will supercharged combo points count towards the use of 7 combo points for “Restless Blades”?
- For the Roll the Bones benefit which increases the chance for Sinister Strike to hit twice, would that work with Ambush as well?
- For “Count the Odds”, does each individual strike of Ambush have a chance to proc it (such as in the event of double-hits)?
I think you get where I’m going with this… this all sounds super fun, I just don’t know how synergistic these talents would actually be in practice. Wanted to confirm.
That’d seem pretty broken if they synergized “as well as hoped”. While it would epitomize “good” talent tree design to allow for so many synergies to exist between the various talents, I doubt it’d make it into live (or survive for long after making it into live) if that were the case.
I imagine the following to be (or will be) true:
- Extra hits with ambush will produce extra combo points, same way that extra hits with Sinister Strike produce extra combo points.
- Heavy Hitter will cap at allowing for one combo point to be super charged at a time. No other points can/will be super charged until the duration expires (45 sec) or its used.
- Shouldn’t be any PvP concerns since Subtlety already has a similar gameplay style with Shadowstrike and Weaponmaster (though the chance to double-strike is 15% instead of 45% or 90%, and Shadowstrike inherently deals less damage than Ambush). Subtlety can also use Shadowstrike outside of stealth via Shadow Dance, similar to the interplay suggested by the build you linked.
- Fan the Hammer additional procs should work to trigger Audacity.
- Restless Blades will likely have an internal limit of 5, but should allow for up to 7. This will likely be broken at launch and never fixed.
- Yes, the Roll the Bones benefit which increases the chance for Sinister Strike to hit an additional time should work for Ambush as well (assuming you pick up the capstone talent which allows Ambush to hit an additional time).
- Count the Odds would likely be limited to each use of Ambush, not each hit.
If you’re going to reply to your own posts try to do it with alts that don’t look almost exactly alike.
I was testing all of your questions this morning, but they just took Alpha offline so not sure when I will be able to continue testing. Anyways here’s what I found out on your first question:
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Sinister Strike double strikes do give extra combo points. I would expect the same for Ambush, but Hidden Opportunity is not implemented yet for testing.
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With 2/2 ‘Improved Ambush’ Talent selected, from stealth on a target dummy, Ambush was producing 6 combo points (it did this every time). It wasn’t a double-ambush (the hidden opportunity talent hasn’t been implemented yet).
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After using Shadow Dance, Ambush was producing 6 combo points every hit with ‘Improved Ambush’. I was able to get off 3 x Ambush in a SD window. I was having to dump CPs after each Ambush. I could cast 5 x Ambush without using any combo points and just spammed Ambush.
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Once I removed ‘Improved Ambush’ as a talent, Ambush was producing 2 x Combo Points.
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Ambush producing 6 combo points every time is probably a bug with 2/2 ‘Improved Ambush’.
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• Ambush seemed to be giving 3 combo points from a crit Ambush (no other Ambush modifiers were talented). Double procs of Ambush that are both crits will in fact provide 6 combo points. (I think though if the first one is a crit, the double hit will also always crit – don’t hold me to this)
• I think I found a bug though on gaining combo points with Ambush – 2/2 Improved Ambush was giving me full combo points (5 or 6) every time I would cast Ambush. I would expect this to give me 1 additional. This likely will have to be fixed in a future build.
Heavy Hitter not yet implemented. (8/3). I’ll have to check this out later.
I could only get in 3 x Ambushes in the Subterfuge 3 sec window (follow that up though with a 6-point kidney & shadow dance, you could potentially get in a LOT of Ambush hits - see comments below with synergy with Audacity). You could have more Ambush procs though if you got the double proc in the same window. I guess in theory you could get potentially get 6 Ambushes in the window with double procs.
• Yes Fan the Hammer half-cost pistol shots will trigger audacity and a free ambush. (The audacity buff for a free Ambush is 9 seconds, if you proc it again before you use it up, it will reset the 9 sec buff for audacity.)
• The free Ambush can also double-hit if you have Hidden Opportunity.
• At 317 item level at Level 68, Ambush normal hits were ~6.1k, crits were ~13k
• I was able to get in 15 consecutive Ambushes with Subterfuge, followed immediately by Shadow Dance (I didn’t spend any combo points, just seeing how many ambushes I could get off - this also included some that were double procs of Ambush from Hidden Opportunity). That’s a lot of Ambushes in a short window.
• Yes – a supercharged combo point reliably reduced cooldowns by 7 seconds. Resounding Clarity could look pretty good seeing the added CDR.
This was very hard to test (Skull & Crossbones buff from Roll the Bones). I need logs and/or a damage meter to measure something like this. Seeing that everything else seems to be interacting properly with Hidden Opportunity, no reason why this won’t as well.
• I think Count the Odds is currently broken on Alpha – I never could get it proc a roll the bones extra 5 sec buff, EVER. Will have to revisit this later. I had previously reported this in a previous build, so just waiting to see when it will be fixed.
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Thank you so much for looking into these interactions. Means a lot for those of us without access to the alpha.