I think they could handle the lights decree nerf differently

Classes Paladin
1

Quoting a blue from a previous thread hope that is ok.

From what I understand the nerf was mostly for AOE damage but they changed it as well so that procs can trigger the light explosion which brings it out neutral maybe a net positive if you get procs during wings from empyrian power or DP.

What has happened is that although the single target nerf wasn’t a whole lot in overall damage, as a result it is almost always never beneficial to stack 2 or three traits of lights decree since the nerf is getting compounded every time you stack the trait.

yes most of the damage comes from an extra 5 seconds of wings but with the explosion nerf it is now better to take weak traits like avenger’s might over a second lights decree trait which doesn’t feel great especially when there are generic traits that stack very well together that many classes have access to.

As well it seems like it was originally intended for ret pallys to be stacking 3x lights decree due to several pieces in the raid and mythic plus vendor carrying the trait, and now it seems like that design intent was broken with the single target nerf.

I think a way they could have handled the AOE balancing without having single target to suffer is have the target from the explosion cap at 5-10 targets and over that limit the damage would be spread evenly, keeping the single target explosion the same or could even raise it this way to be in line with other generic traits like treacherous covenant.

This way it would once again be a strong trait to stack 3 of like it was originally intended throughout the raid tier and in m+, since so much gear in the raid has lights decree as an option.

This does enlighten me a bit to how maybe some azerite traits could get a little more love in the balancing department. Some traits are very strong when stacked to 3 however some you only want 1 of almost always.

Obviously the challenge is creating a trait that when stacked 3x isn’t too broken but still feels good running it multiple times.

I don’t think the current state of how handling lights decree should be considered final and hope that if there is another round of balancing done that the developers will consider somehow making lights decree a stackable trait single target.

(ps: in arena’s lights decree breaks my hunter’s frost traps maybe it could get the avenger’s shield treatment and not break cc unintentionally <3)

2

tl:dr

instead of nerfing the single target damage cap the target limit at 5-10 targets for AOE and anything over spread over all targets hit in the explosion. this way single target damage can be kept the same or even buffed slightly depending on the target limit.

also make it so the explosion doesn’t break friendly CC.

3

If you think Avenger’s Might is a weak trait you have no idea what you’re talking about.

3 Likes
4

https://bloodmallet.com/index.html#paladin_retribution?data_view=azerite_traits&type=itemlevel&tier=3

ctrl + F avenger’s might it is below middle of the pack

when stacking 3 it goes up slightly since it stacks well.

comes nowhere close to treacherous covenant.

just curious why you think it is strong? or do you consider middle of the pack strong because i do not. It does gain strength from running LD from extra 5 seconds but besides that it is barely simming better than stacking a second lights decree and that is a pretty low standard since lights decree stacks poorly.

5

How dare you say pallies need more damage during our 25 seconds of burst? Blizz hello? you there? Nerf pallies by 30% more, and 60% more in pvp.

Soon you will just be a walking bag of flesh, and be a class for RP only. Wait RP? IN A RPG? NO THIS IS E-SPORTS!!! IT’S IN THE GAME, ANTFUN ACTIVATED

6

well strange response but if you read past the tl’dr i’m just asking for balance between stuff like AOE burst and single target burst and overall damage to be in line with treacherous covenant and other such traits when stacking certain traits. just seems weird to have LC on every tier piece when we can’t stack 3.

although stacking TC is a good way for consistent damage output if you prefer that playstyle. I will probably try it if i get the right tier.

7

No it was a joke comment. I agree with your rational. But we all know blizzard likes to swing that nerf hammer, I mean they nerfed every class and pruned half of the buttons you use to be able to press.

8

oh ok i see hahah. :stuck_out_tongue:

yea i understand they needed to balance it but i don’t think how they did it was the best solution especially with the tier pieces available in the raid.

9

I personally don’t think it should have been touched by 30%. Its completely situational 25-30secs depends if you got the other talent, and its on a 2min CD, in the 1min and 30 secs you have a decline in damage and you rely to much on RNG to play a factor. Pallies are meant to be a burst class

10

if they would have handled the nerf differently and gave us 3 pieces with LD and also TC on it by the end of the tier we could have been a strong leader in DPS.

11

Because Bloodmallet is not the best resource available for generic information like that. It is always best to sim your own character. If you want better generic information then you should look here instead.

https://www.retpaladin.xyz/ret-paladin-8-1-0-pve-guide#Azerite

12

i do sim my own character :stuck_out_tongue:

It looks like they are simming with crusade and HoW which I never take so for me everything is gonna be off here. (i don’t have to deal with the 6 second gab in rotation as much with my setup). so that is why avenger’s might is coming out stronger on their charts. (crusade is 10 seconds longer than wings)

BLoodmallet sims come out closer to my own talent choices and personal sims so to say that one is inherently better than the other is really a bit disingenuous. :stuck_out_tongue:

personally the gain from swapping to crusade and HoW is only about 262 dps and for me the gap in rotation from giving up my procs are not worth the minimal dps gain so I will continue to use bloodmallet as a reference if I don’t have time to sim.

13

I’m not sure what you expected then. If you play what is the current “meta” then your results can be different. Just because a trait isn’t strong with your build does not mean the trait itself is weak. Also Crusade only lasts 5 more seconds than Avenging Wrath. And if you compare overall downtime of HoW vs BoJ they’re nearly identical. Some people prefer to not have dead GCD’s during Wings and having it available in execute is really nice. Especially on fights with long execute phases.

I decided to sim your character. There is actually a 574 DPS or 2.6% difference between the talent setups if you change your current Azerite choices.

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/p2Z8Q7AK1eZYGHtkwHw2Y9

14

5 seconds longer is a 20% increase to an azerite trait that only functions during wings though and even then it is still piggybacking off of LD. :stuck_out_tongue:

and your sim is actually a downgrade unless your custom potion is the source of the downgrade or there is something else i missed.

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/jHDuc32yFSVqJfCqqho6yW

another thing to consider is that many dps windows in mythic progression are build around 20 seconds before you have to deal with mechanics so I’m not sure crusade would have a chance to perform well unless the raid lead just lets you sit on the boss the extra 10-15 seconds. really not worth a 1-2% increase otherwise.

also I rarely have downtime with wings with double procs because they are not limited to just functioning outside of wings. although I did give up the divine storm proc trait recently.

15

All you did was a “Talent Compare”. If you looked at my link I also changed Azerite Traits which I mentioned in my post. Crusade is fine on every fight in Mythic. The duration is not an issue and you don’t need to beg your RL to let you sit on a boss.

16

right I saw that just mentioning it still shows as downgrade :stuck_out_tongue:

if you are using 10-15 seconds of wings on the boss insteady of moving to an add that needs to die i’m not sure how i would feel about that from a mythic raider :stuck_out_tongue:

edit

i see now you forgot enchants. I’m getting about the same number 500 dps increase piggybacking off crusade and LD combo which is not nothing.

17

Wow, I actually used raidbots and was quite surprised. I am sitting at 22% crit and it is showing expurgation beating out every other choice.

To see link, remove the period after www

www .raidbots.com/simbot/report/8Exw8JdLMi64oFGm88Qx9S

www .raidbots.com/simbot/report/dCsk4dLcZqqJ5MzD7SJpjY

18

yea for me unless i take crusade expurgation beats out avenger’s might

19

I agree that the AOE was stupid broken but what about single target? This class just keeps getting nerfed for pvp but blizzard neglecting raid for us PVErs. About to roll another class because of this bs.

20

Ret hasn’t been nerfed in pvp since 8.1 btw. Even before lights decree nerfed you only used one.