Ironic isn’t it? Sylvanas nor Zovaal have carried a single soul to the Maw.
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She literally went to the Maw in Edge of Night and met the Jailer there, she’s been working in tandem with him since then.
Again Grandblade, we don’t even know that the Jailer caused the Arbiter to fail in the first place.
So how would Sylvanas know that at some point later in Legion that the Arbiter was broken and now all souls were going to the Maw? And why would this not come up in Sylvanas’s own thoughts in her reasoning in Before the Storm or A Good War?
I’m not saying the Jailer caused the Arbiter to fall, but him and Sylvanas are sure as hell capitalizing on it. Sylvanas started a brutal war of annihilation right around the time the Arbiter broke. That’s not a coincidence.
And frankly, I can’t attest for the inconsistency in her previous thought process. I can only tell you what we know now. That’s that she knew where those souls were going, and that’s why she did what she did. I presume we’ll get our answers to those questions later, but to say at this point that Sylvanas wasn’t knowingly working with the Jailer in at LEAST BFA is silly.
No offense, but I honestly don’t think you’re asking anything in “good faith.” I think you’re being pedantic because the truth of what the character is now upsets you. Which is fine, but at the end of the day, the objective reality of her still exists.
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I think it will be revealed that Zovaal knew of the Kyrian’s ridiculous stance on sending souls to Arbiter even though they know that 100% of the souls that they ferry will end up in the Maw.
Zovaal basically pulled the Archon’s derp card.
Everything you say is a derp card.
Really? You still feel this way after the last two Sylvanas and Anduin cinematics? And after Ion’s answer about Sylvanas? After an entire expansion, and going into an entirely second expansion of Sylvanas not being a raid boss? After you failed to answer my question about how Sylvanas could have possibly known all souls were going to the Maw?
I have to say I’m surprised that you’re clinging to the BfA Sylvanas as a life preserve. The story has moved on. We know more now than we did, pretending like we still only knew what we knew in BfA does no one any good.
Awww you’re still mad I’m a Sylvanas fan. Keep being mad.
Edit: Cupcake
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We don’t know HOW she knew, we just know she knew. Given that she was working with the Jailer this entire time since Cataclysm, it’s nothing resembling outside the realm of believability that she was made aware somehow. He exerted his presence over the Lich King just fine, I fail to see why him being in contact with Sylvanas when she’s his partner is such a stretch.
Also yeah, I still feel exactly that way after the Shadowlands cinematics, even moreso. They’ve only further proven that everything Sylvanas did was calculated in aid of the Jailer. I’m not clinging to the BFA Sylvanas, because the BFA Sylvanas is one whose motivations were never this clear.
YOU, sir, are the one clinging to BFA Sylvanas, because you don’t like Shadowlands Sylvanas. It really feels like everything you just said is far more applicable to what you’re doing than what I am. Shadowlands makes Sylvanas look worse than she did in BFA, not better.
I’m not mad you’re a Sylvanas fan. I know tons of lovely people who are Sylvanas fans who I have nothing but respect for. You’re just not one of them.
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Say it ain’t so, I’m definitely gonna lose some sleep tonight. Lol
/fistpump : )
I’m loving Shadowlands Sylvanas. Shadowlands Sylvanas is the real Sylvanas. It’s like Blizzard collectively realized making Sylvanas into a mustache-twirling Saturday Morning Cartoon Villain was incredibly, incredibly stupid in BfA and now they are rushing to undo their mistake.
I think we will see how much control the Jailer has over the Lich King and his “creations”… I would regret the story going in that direction though. My hope is that we end up allying with the Jailer to fix the Shadowlands.
I’m not sure how you can see the Sylvanas and Anduin cinematics in SL and still ascribe a completely nihilistic motivation to Sylvanas without overly-relying on her BfA characterization where we were not privy to her inner thoughts at any point.
In what universe are Sylvanas’s motivations not purely nihilistic? What, because she was mildly sad once when she was trying to twist the blonde kid’s arm? Yeah, that doesn’t negate that she outright wants to tear everything down because being obliterated is apparently preferable to not having free will.
Sylvanas has certainly been given more dimension than her BFA characterization, but dimension does not inherently absolve her. Past that, I’m not exactly sure how anything you’ve said negates the argument that she knew what she was doing from the Burning to all of the Blood War.
Also given that the Jailer’s plans to “fix” the Shadowlands involve brutally killing almost everyone in them and permanently destroying the souls who come into his domain, it’d be pretty damn messed up if he was the one we were meant to align with. That’d be like saying we shoulda just let Sargeras take Azeroth because he had a point about the Void Lords.
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I admit I haven’t completed all of the Covenant storylines, but I am a sucker for Wowhead spoilers. Where did the Jailer’s “plan” come into play??
Dude, the Kyrians are the ones solely responsible for sending souls to the Maw right now. Do you get that? As far as we the players know the Jailer isn’t even the original ruler of the Maw.
You make a lot of assumptions based on very small snippets of lore. Where I’m from we call that fanon, not canon.
Every baddie in the Shadowlands is allied with the Jailer. The Forsworn, Kel’Thuzad, the Drust, Mueh’zala, Denathrius, etc… all backed by the Jailer. Objectively, we can say that whatever the Jailer’s plans are, it involves mass extermination and mass unraveling of any souls that come to him. The Jailer might not be the one bringing souls to the Maw, but that doesn’t negate any of his terrible plans. He’s also asserted dominion over the Scourge on Azeroth as well, so that’s on him as well.
I’m not assuming anything, these are established facts. You’re ignoring very large snippets of lore. From where I’m from, we call that ignorance is bliss. You can ignore canon all you’d like, but you’re ignoring canon, dude.
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Why would the Jailer need Devos or the Forsworn when the Kyrian are already sending him all of the souls across all of existence 24/7 7 days a week?
It makes no sense.
The Jailer’s play, if he is the really the villain, is to do nothing. He has the anima from Revendreth. He has every soul of everyone who dies from the Kyrian. He doesn’t need anyone else.
Yeah but the Light tells you what to do or something.
I’m not here to make sense of what you perceive as plot holes, I’m just telling you what’s objectively happening. Hell, given that the Jailer has his own brand of Kyrian now, it’s entirely probable that the Kyrian of Bastion stopped, but the Mawsworn ones didn’t.
Your confusion doesn’t make the established story any less established.
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No what it makes is the idea that the Jailer is responsible for the disruption of the Arbiter illogical. Which means it wasn’t part of the Jailer’s plans. Which means it wasn’t part of Sylvanas’s plans.
We know the Kyrian are still fueling the Maw because it is part of the Kyrian covenant renown quest line.
We know that’s when some of them found out about the disruption. We don’t know if they continued to do so after finding out. But that’s neither here nor there, because you’re shifting the goalpost.
We dunno if the Jailer is responsible for disrupting the Arbiter - he likely wasn’t - but both him and Sylvanas knew that the Aribter WAS disrupted, and because of this, began to kill as many people as possible to send them there. My argument was never that they broke the Arbiter, my argument was that they capitalized on her breaking.
Which isn’t actually an argument, it’s just an objective fact.
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Fair enough. In good faith (wink wink) I would presume that Sylvanas does not have a magic telekinetic link to the Jailer since the closest we’ve gotten to that in the lore is with the helm of domination. Which means she would have needed to learn about the state of the Arbiter at some point during Legion. Her encounter in Legion with Helya, who could have presumably told her about the Aribiter, takes place in 7.0. But we know that Ursoc and Y’sera avoid the Maw.
Which means whatever causes the Arbiter to break happens after these two characters die, long after Sylvanas ineracts with Helya on screen and likely after Helya is already “dead”
Then we have the BfA Azerite which seems to genuinely excite Sylvanas. We already know she wants to Rez Stormwind, doesn’t believe peace will last for good reason, and thinks wounding the Night Elves either by killing Malfurion or holding Teldrassil makes the difference.
So at what point in all of this does Sylvanas learn that the Arbiter is a thing and is broken and all souls are going to the Maw?
I’m well aware I may never get a satisfactory answer here.
EDIT: Also this all presumes the Jailer was himself in chains until the beginning of Shadowlands in which case…how does he know anything about the state of Oribos???
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