The reality is that the casual experience in WoW is better than it’s been in a long time, however WoW never ha been and never will be an RPG element driven game.
If you don’t want to play WoW at a high level you dont have to, but make no mistake there is a high and a low level and that’s not going to change.
Kotmogu is very teeter-tottery. It’s fun as hell when you’re winning, not so much when you’re not.
I have to disagree. While majority of my time is spent in retail keys, I still happily log on for classic raiding with the squad. Classic just hits different, its straight forward and free of the heavy convolution that is retail. Dare I say it’s goated? Newsflash: a game doesnt have to be super sweat difficult in order be FUN.
Also, majority of my squad is young, classic isnt just for boomers, its for those that never experienced the content the first time around.
While I agree pushing keys is one of the best end games there is, especially due to playtime being more flexible… one of the largest factors for me being more interested in keys than I am raiding is purely because the gearing is faster and easier. Youre not limited to that one lockout per week, you can just grind keys as much as you want, ezpz. If blizzard could solve the gear disparity between the two, I might be more inclined to seriously raid.
Esports driven development and micro transactions ruined the game.
I think there’s other issues going on here, it’s not just a matter of elitist players vs casual players,
I think whether you elite or casual, the presence of loot boxes and countless other things you have to pay for in games these days means that nobody these days will ever get a full and complete product without spending extra money,
See I don’t care about elite players, reality is all I have to do is save up money and pay for a carry through a heroic raid by some elite raid group, as much as I hate to say it, that’s just the way it is,
It’s part of why although I absolutely loved Shadowlands storyline (unlike everyone else) at the same point, I didn’t bother paying to kill the Jailer last expansion but oh well. It just no longer feels rewarding.
So to me there is no competition left at all, as players can try and play legitimately, but when you know someone else can pay for a carry by an elite raid group there’s nothing left to achieve.
Traditional wow always had raiding and end game content that was intended to be challenging for the more hardcore and serious players that want to push their ability.
Not sure what you’re complaining about, but I for one am sick of hearing from you whiny toxic casuals about how challenging content shouldn’t be in the game and trying to portay it in a negative light and trying to make the entire game cater to you.
99% of the game caters to you, but mythic+ and mythic raiding exists and I’m guessing the real problem here is the idea of doing harder content to you in a group environment makes you feel insecure and bring out your petty, jealous side.
You’re like crabs in a bucket, trying to claw everyone back down to your level because seeing other players with higher ilvl gear or achieving things in game that you can’t makes you feel small or inadequate and you don’t like that.
I know this because I have talked to people who have a negative attitude towards raiding and end-game content and in the end all the hate always boils down to the affected person having a form of “raid anxiety”, or a delusional fear that the end game community will tease or reject them, so as a self-defense mechanism you reject them first and attack them because that is how you imagine they would treat you, although this isn’t the case in any reality and is only a made up head canon from your pettiness and insecurities.
This entire “problem” can literally be solved by simply staying in your lane and minding your own business instead of obsessing over what other players or community’s are doing, there will always be “hardcore” players, and there will always be “casual” players.
It’s been a long time since I’ve seen any “hardcore” players be rude to casuals, but you casuals can be really nasty and toxic alot of the times and you think your “casual” status gives you a sought of immunity to criticism because you believe “casuals can’t be toxic!!!” but this isn’t true, there are plenty of wonderful, kind players at the highest level of the game and there are some super nasty petty, jealous casuals that constantly compare themselves to everyone else in the game and lash out at them for having the audacity of taking the game seriously, it’s pathetic to me.
Again, stay in your own lane, focus on enjoying yourself and all these “problems” you are having will cease to exist.
While your statement is technically true, I feel like you may be missing some additional context. The problem is that the mindset of high-end, elite, optimized play does not stay within M+ or Rated PvP. People across all levels of difficulty have adopted a style of play that is wildly different and incredibly fast-paced compared to the earlier and vastly more subscriber-filled expansions.
I used to raid and run dungeons in WotLK, but after my guild sort of broke apart during Cata and I graduated and got a job, my subscription became a lot more off-and-on and I didn’t want to run dungeons with pugs. When I finally started trying dungeons again, I was excited for WotLK Timewalking. Boy was I wrong. The experience is SO different, I can hardly put it in to words. The introduction of M+ really, really affected how people play this game. It was constant running from start to finish. That’s just how people run dungeons now. It’s pure speedrun mentality and it’s exhausting.
It goes even further. The entire game has to be designed from top to bottom to support esports. It’s the very reason for FUN DETECTED and is the reason we can’t have nice things. Which is sad, because it’s not all that popular…
yeah but what is 1% of revenue from the eSports generations? I honestly dont know the answer, but if it’s higher than the other 99%s $$$ into the game than it is good for them. it don’t make dollas if it don’t make cents
I don’t think in terms of M+ at least that there are any obnoxious mechanics. I actually prefer these dungeons and the amount of mechanics bosses have compared to previous seasons.
It’s not overly complicated even for someone like me who’s pretty slow to learn.
you say this
then immediately follow up with why the side you don’t like is wrong
I’m beating a dead horse here, I don’t know why I keep this up BUT: here I go again,
Tom Chilton wanted an immersive enjoyable experience that every type of player could enjoy, ion the elitist jerk guy wants to cater to a certain subset, and raids are easier than having to do other content well.
No it doesn’t. When you take out the time but add challenging content, with more drops, it doesn’t take away its content as being endgame, but lowers the amount of toxicity it brings.
You can push High keys without the timed dungeon lol. Look at GW2 Fractals of the Mists. The higher you go is scales with difficulty without it being timed. And guess what? You actually get loot for your efforts.
Who wrote or did I write anything revolving around solo players? Actually, while we on that topic, they should do dungeons for solo players to challenge themselves. FF14 does this. Good content too.
This is False. Where is the proof in this? If you can’t provide proof don’t drop this type of stuff. There are MMOs that have solo play in it and they are actually do well; Lost Ark, FF14, Swtor, GW2, etc. Its the type of content you release that interest players. WoW, on the other hand, has one of the worst outside endgame content, because 90% of it’s content is instanced based when you have how many empty zones? Also, WoW has one of the WORST loot drop systems where you work hard and barely get anything… AkA Mythics/Raids… basically your endgame content. The reason for this horrid loot system is because they can’t create a better outside content experience to compensate for it. So, to keep players engaged, they make this type of rng casino gambling system. Take out Mythics and Raids what does WoW have to offer for endgame? Once you complete Raids what else is there to do? World quest that give below loot drops? GW2 provides endless old and new zones with Events and resources and loot that’s usable for all content, with vendor options, professions, Legendary farming, as well as story mode with gear drops that go with current content (Even old story) and more. This is when you take out its raiding and dungeon content. Wow has none of this, beside the new professions in dragonflight. Think about that. And before you say, go play GW2 if you like it that much. I do. I play both.
They offer lower keys as a starting point to gear up into higher. The mess are you even typing? Lower keys doesn’t cater to casuals just because it’s lower keys…
Yeah, how could people succumb to letting some nerds who tip-tap on their keyboards dictate what we think is best? How about we all just realize we’re all playing the same game in different ways and not be at each other’s throats be it RPers, PVPers, and PvErs?
That’s not a wow issue, that’s a gaming in 2023 issue. Gaming in general is far more “meta-minded” now than it was back in wotlk days.
We had elitest jerks forums back then, thats about it, and most players had no idea. What we didn’t have was readily accessible content creators across numerous platforms churning out clickbait videos titled “The crazyiest gold farm!” “The most XP per hour!” “This build is overpowered!” blah blah blah. You see it across all games and genres. It’s just a different age.
That’s very true. The amount to which content creators have contributed toward this can’t be understated. You’re right we had elitist jerks back then but they were mostly insulated in their own community, as you said. That’s why I find it less accurate when people bring up that there were “always speed runners” or “always elitists.” It’s just a whole different dynamic. Nowadays it’s unavoidable because of the influence of content creators and (some of the) game design.
Rated PvP mindsets are also trickling down into more casual aspects of things, to the point that I’m seeing people demean people for playing the “wrong spec” in unrated, and people are demanding top tier comps and classes at the entry point.
If you’re a PvPer, you get very little, to nothing, out of your time unless you push into some pretty extreme percentiles of one of the ladders too. 1800 is usually the top 10%, and outside that, you get parts of a set, and a mount.
So people are so hyper-focused on trying to climb rather than just play, when literally every other game that has PvP as a side feature, let alone it’s core feature, rewards people for simply grinding. Prestige was supposed to be that, but it was changed after Legion and we’re back to the CR focus again because the new version is so slow it’s not even a factor.
I’m so tired of it.
I’ve never seen an RPG community so obsessed with metas and min-maxing, nor one that encourages it this hard.
Blizz trying to make their game an ‘esport’ ruined its PvP. Now all you really see is rated players crying about every little thing they lose to, or defending anything OP they personally enjoy. Rated is what brought about the demand for higher burst/faster killing rather than a give-and-take design that allowed for more counterplay. Doesn’t help that blizz added so many ‘hero’ classes it’s basically impossible to balance anymore.
The main issue is that balance around esport pvp is a new thing for games so if blizzard wants to get on top of it they need to start polling players more on future content. Without a stable source of players to compete there won’t be any room for more casual content if they decide to switch over.
That’s true.