agree buff survival
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You can equip melee weapons and use melee weapons. Seems foundational to me. Otherwise it wouldn’t work.
Yes actually I do.
To you lol
MM has .1% more players than SV so clearly this isn’t even accurate.
Restoration uses shapeshifting?
This reminds me, SV even uses ranged weapons in its rotation so your whole point is wrong.
The only “baseline” things are Steady Shot, Arcane Shot, Wing Clip (lol), and tame beast, no? Sounds like no animal poison or exotic munitions are baseline either. so RSV wouldnt fit at all. or sharpshooting MM.
95% of Hunters dont play MM either. I guess ranged weapons aren’t what the playerbase wants.
MM has .1% more players.
Sucks for you then I guess? I want MM to get attention too.
According to you, people will play MM even when it’s not competitive because that’s what the class is meant to be.
Not to mention, MM IS competitive right now and deals great damage. So you’re wrong on both counts.
MM has barely more players than SV.
Tangent, but
It absolutely does, yes. Not that often if there’s no utility value to be had from it, but certainly often enough.
And current survival does use ranged weaponry sparingly (Kill Shot, etc) so his point is moot…no?
Ahh, sorry. Had to scroll up for more of the context.
Is dual-wielding founational?
If that’s the case you haven’t ever understood my positions at all.
Have a read of that if you’re under the impression I’m just unconditionally preferring what’s older.
To a lot of people. SV used to be one of the most widely played specs in the game. Modern SV fans can’t even comprehend that being a reality so they make up ridiculous lies to pretend it’s always been a niche spec.
MM has proven to be capable of being widely played.
Yes, it does. Just because it isn’t permanently in shapeshift form doesn’t mean shapeshifting is irrelevant to the spec.
So the cosmetic design decision of not always being in shapeshift form is the equivalent of not being able to be a ranged attacker with a ranged weapon?
Yeah they should make ranged weapons the primary mode of dealing damage.
Poisons and special munitions are a natural extension of the ranged weapon fantasy.
MM has proven to be capable of being widely played.
Actually, I don’t think you do. I think you enjoy the deflection.
No, I don’t think that about MM, If it’s not competitive people will play BM instead. It used to be people will play BM or SV, but people largely avoid SV even when it is competitive.
There are still far too many downsides to picking MM over BM.
MM has proven to be capable of being widely played.
The ‘barely more’ number of MM Hunters playing is a small percentage of how many MM Hunters there actually are. Quite a few are like me, waiting for a change in the weather, hoping the wind will reverse itself, and blow back the other way.
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No you see there are also thousands of would-be SV hunters just waiting on the sidelines until they introduce dual-wielding SV 
what would bepples be without his one-man crusade against melee hunters
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a Ranged Survival Hunter.
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every morning, i always get a tad excited when i see survival-related topics at the top of the modern day hunter forums (aka not the forums from 20 years ago)… and then a split-second i realize it’s just bettles ://///
on the upside, dude has given more exposure to msurvival than blizzard ever could, lol.
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To be fair, it was ranged for around that long before it became melee so it’s always possible
I don’t agree here, you can have different styles of proc based gameplay but this would get us into some nitty gritty on preferences
And you have 2 specs on warrior, 1 on monk, 1 on DH, 1 on Paladin, 3 on rogue, 1 on shaman, 1 on druid and 2 on DK, and of course msv so there isn’t exactly a shortage of melee options either, you actually still have more melee specs than ranged ones. Plus, up until this expansion, we were actually -1 on ranged dps specs.
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Why did they make a fun ranged spec melee? They could always play dk, feral druid, ret paladin, any rogue spec, 2 warrior specs, 1 monk spec, 1 dh spec, 1 paladin spec, or 1 shaman spec, in fact we still have more melee specs than ranged ones even after evoker was added.
I think it should be the opposite, as it was in the past.
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Wow. Have not been in the Hunter forums, come and take a look, and the same arguments and the usual suspects are here ranting about SV Hunter. Heck, the original WOW manual, which shipped with the original game made an appearance!
Man oh, Man. We’re coming up on 9 years! 9!!! Yet the same old argument keeps being spewed out. By the same people! Talk about dedication to a cause. Welp back to enjoying playing the game as SV.
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Agreed. It’s the same ol’ dog and pony show. The same fraction of players have two RDPS specs, one of which is considered “overpowered” with a “good talent tree”, the other being MM, a spec with a bit of jank and more of the sniper fantasy, and they still want to pull the rug out under a melee spec because “IT USED RANGED AT ONE POINT”
Yeah, and all specs used melee. Grow up.
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Is melee not usable before level 10?
If being ranged was “better for the class” then MM would have more players.
It doesn’t matter, it has low player count now and according to you, that’s indicative of what the player base wants.
But modern SV does use ranged attacks with a ranged weapons. I don’t think you’ve played the spec.
Cool, when does it shift into Bear form rotationally?
They should do that with Arms too. It’d be better for the spec.
According to whom? I didn’t know you could only poison a ranged weapon.
MM has no players now, therefore the hunter player base doesn’t like Ranged weapon fantasies. Just your logic.
Well this is just you wanting to be a bitter narcissist again lol. I talk about things I want for MM all the time in spaces you aren’t even around in, but that’s just your ego talking.
Do you think that speaks of rSV or do you think that means people just want to play super easy, super safe specs, with full mobility?
Name them lol. Remember, according to you full mobility is hardly a perk anymore. MM does comparable damage.
MM doesn’t have players right now, so according to you that means nobody cares about ranged weapons.
Well no, they said no current specs are changing from their roles in the future. There’s as much chance survival goes ranged as marksmanship goes tank lol
Go on and explain how a proc on an auto attack crit (effectively a dot effect) is different than a proc on a target. How does that feel different to the average player?
situation A: my auto shot goes off every 2.5 seconds. when it crits, there’s an X chance something happens
situation B: my dot does damage every 2.5 seconds. there’s an X chance something happens.
How is this relevant at all? Right now, there are an equal number of range and melee. What’s with rSV people forever living in the past?
Not to mention, if “equality” is your concern with spec parity, then you should never be wanting SV to be moved to ranged as we’d be -1 m and +1 range.
why are you lying? there are 13 range and 13 melee
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This is just an assumption. You do not speak for the “community”. Normal survival (melee since legion) is a fresh idea and works much better than the redundant third range spec of yore.
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We only have 12 ranged, 3 mage, 3 lock, 2 hunter, 1 shaman, 1 druid, 1 evoker and 1 priest spec. Are you counting Augmentation Evoker?
They have said a lot of things and done the opposite many, many times.
There were more ways to get procs than just dots with rdps
I’ve said many times that I feel an ideal solution is a 4th spec / choice node that way everyone wins
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Get 'em Nondriel. Sic 'em. Muck 'em up. Hit 'em with it. Break it down. Then proc a Kill Command reset and hit 'em again.
Yes, because it’s a ranged dps? lol?
Well then I am looking forward to tank BM and healer marksmanship.
You’re right, rSV can also get procs by using traps. I’m sure the player base won’t get immediately sick of that.
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