you need to calm down bro.
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i mean i guess i respect you admitting to how much strangers using a common epithet on the internet bothers you. but yeah, idk, garrosh p mid lol
EDIT: bro
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i think hes ignoring you now.
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I’ve seen many characters from other races with the exception of forsakens, they mostly are sylvanus fanboys, and Garry was mean to her, and elf posters, cause they think they are better than the rest and alliance adjacent.
Mostly, if you actually know warcraft lore, you think Garrosh was fine, if you dont, and only read second hand and watch some youtube tell a one-side story, yeah, he may look worse and the alliance is the victim, when its far from the truth.
It isnt, like i said, it is completely consistent with his character from outland to cata, especially after Thrall scold him for attacking the alliance in wrath.
He never harmed civilians until blizz decided to spawn out of thin air theramore civilians in orgrimmar to make him look even more evil(and that is a plot-hole btw, the civilians escaped, as he gave theramore time to prepare)
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I ate Myzrym’s family… like with a fork. Do not expect sympathy!
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Like he fought back against… Gilneas? A kingdom that hadn’t been a part of the Alliance for over a decade at that point? Using the Forsaken as cannon fodder against them? Yes, Garrosh was fighting back against the Alliance but he was also needlessly starting wars on new fronts because he was obsessed with conquest.
Lor’themar actually specifically mentions something like that after the purge of Dalaran. He was planning to leave the Horde because his people, who I remind you lost 90% of their population to the Scourge a few years prior, were being treated similar to how Garithos treated them; as cannon fodder. But after the purge, he cements that he’ll stay with the Horde because the Alliance is the only reason the Horde continues to exist. Without their hatred and imperialism, the Horde wouldn’t need to exist. He knows the Alliance is a problem, but that doesn’t mean Garrosh is a good leader by any stretch.
Therein lies a problem. Why was Garrosh so focused on assaulting new lands and conquering them instead of securing his own lands? Because the problems in Mulgore/The Barrens and the Sen’jin Isles didn’t affect him. He just wanted to invade and be a conquering hero, not actually stabilize the Horde. Also…
This is said about a guy who sent Vol’jin on a mission specifically as a cover up for his agents to murder him because he criticized him. And also tortured Thrall because he wanted him to stop his insane genocidal war.
You realize this kinda cements the whole “orc hitler” thing, right? Because yeah, Garrosh militarized and industrialized the Horde more, yeah he took more land, but look what happened? The world united against him because he was a warmongering lunatic who’s only good contributions to the Horde were an indirect result of his own selfish, insane desire to be ruler of the world.
On this point I will say him being focused on new lands was more about getting more resource rich lands than what the Horde has. The Alliance lands are pretty fertile for the most parts with lots of natural resources. Other options could have been tried but those are boring unless you wanted a full farming WoW xpac.
Guilneas attack was after horde and alliance war was going on, it was a neutral party that the forsaken were pretty much eager to get, they arent friendly and if you are not friend you are enemy. Securing guilenas as a port city would be a powerful asset against the alliance.
Lets just not pretend both alliance and horde don’t extermine villages and other settlements of other races right? lots of neutral parties started to join the factions because of it, The goblins of Kezan attacked by the alliance? Revantusk tribe? ogres? happens more than you think in a world war
That only happens in MOP, after they already start setting Garry path as hideous villain im talking about stuff from cataclysm, where the alliance were mostly the aggressors
Good to notice, Garrosh was basically testing Lorthemar and his people loyalty by sending then in dangerous tasks, due to lorthemar veiled attacks at his position prior in tides of war
Because…that is what happens in warfare? and he did secured a lot of his own lands, but the taurens and trolls need to pull their own weight and they refused.
This is also, one of the points of disagreements between Voljin and Garroh, after Vol’jin disrespected Garry he took the orcish support from sen’jin islands, and left the trolls to fend on their own and they eventually did.
Again, he did secure a lot of his own land, but that doesnt finish neither wins a war, he also need to attack and advance, so why not use his forces in Easter kingdoms as well?
But the horde DID estabilize, under his management, he made the horde a martial power to stand against the alliance not being economic dependant of it, improving the well being of everyone life
Its no surprise the people, the common folk actually saw him as a hero, only the leaders where lobotomized.
You are talking about events that happened after they decide to put him as villain, yeah, of course at that time he would not anymore, because they wrote that way, but before MOP it was consistent
ah so, cause everyone that made his country better was Hitler, we are going full
Godwin’s law here
You are having a hard time comprehending we are talking about two different periods of time and basically two different characters. There was Garrosh from outland in TBC to Garrosh from CATA and early MOP, until blizzard decide he was actually a “warmongering lunatic”, so they wrote a nonsense story, full of contrivances to justify that, going against the character depiction since its creation.
there weren’t any other options, cause the alliance stop the trade of resources and refused to resume.
Horde was entirely dependant on trade from stormwind and night elves, but they cease everything after wrathgate.
when they tried to resume it pre-cata, the twilight hammer killed the druids, the night elves put the blame on the horde/Garrosh - despite horde soldiers/druids dying as well - and refuse again
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That’s not the mindset of a rational, normal person. Which, again, Garrosh was not. And yeah, neutral parties can join the other faction. But attacking a neutral party unprovoked is a surefire way to make sure that they join the other side. That’s wildly stupid.
Where, again, Garrosh started things with neutral parties just because he could. Garrosh was never a good leader. He was always hot tempered and irrational. Look at how he acted in the Borean Tundra and, hell, Northrend overall. They’re fighting an endless army of the undead that grows stronger with each dead soldier on either faction. So what does he do? He wants to fight the Alliance! Which will create… more dead soldiers for the Scourge to raise.
That’s… profoundly stupid. “You don’t trust me? Well how about I throw your endangered people into deadly situations. THEN will you trust me?” That’s the mindset of an insane tyrant throwing a temper tantrum that he doesn’t have the undying loyalty of every one of his subordinates. Not a good warchief.
Again, a stupid move. He’s just making the Darkspear hate him more while also risking Alliance forces near the heart of his nation.
When you focus purely on martial might and “culling the weak” as well as getting rid of the “undesirable” races? Come on, man. You know the argument I’m making here, don’t be disingenuous.
Garrosh in BC was apathetic and depressed because of how he felt Grom doomed his people. Garrosh since Wrath was a hot headed, ill tempered, shortsighted madman who again, wanted to focus on fighting the Alliance in Northrend, started wars that were completely unneeded, and always made disagreements worse than they needed to be. Remember, Cairne may have been the one to challenge him to Mak’gora, but it was Garrosh who decided it needed to be to the death.
The idea that Garrosh is a noble and honorable warrior is pure cope. The one Stonetalon quest doesn’t count because it was written by the same living pile of scum who harassed a bunch of women at Blizzard and also destroyed Sylvanas’ character.
This is exactly what WoW needs, not a bunch of trauma dumped self inserts
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I don’t know why I don’t get a message when someone replies to me in a multi-quote.
By farming I meant trying to rely on Horde shamans and elementals to help shape the land. Put the Goblins to work for irrigation and making better farming equipment. Horde Cozy Farming game…I would play it.
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I miss Garrosh, I miss Saurfang before Golden turned him into an excuse to give her golden boy more screen time. I miss Sylvanas before they decided to Garrosh her. I miss the Forsaken faction when they were crazy zombies, before they “fixed” them with a dose of Calia. I miss when the Horde and the Alliance were in a competition for power and resources, not whatever we got now, which I’m not even sure how to describe.
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Did we play the same game? Or are you fishing here?
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I miss the same things.
Calia is so trash.
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My dude, you cannot apply real modern wow standards in a medieval-like setting that have multiple sentient species with different cultures.
Garrosh is not a “person” as he isnt a human, yes, he is an orc, and they act as such, same way humans in warcraft dont act like modern day humans.
I literally gave you examples of Alliance attacking neutral parties also making then join the horde and breaking the cease fire with the horde directly
But, only Garrosh is the meanie, the others can do it just fine
Just like the alliance did, but when the alliance does is right, when horde does, evil!
And isnt because he could, its because he NEEDED.
Garrosh was the best horde leader in cataclysm, period, what he achieve and what he done set the path for the horde to prosper, and you cannot deny it
Just like Varian
But Varian can, Garrosh cannot
Im seeing ana wfull amount of bias from you friendo
…just like Varian want to fight the horde?
Varian literally declare FREAKING WAR against the horde in wrath and tried to attack the horde in undercity, do you have any idea how bad this could have gone if he succeed? without the horde to help in the attack of Icecrown?
but hey, if the alliance does, its morally correct
For you maybe, but this is a way to test umost loyalkty, giving your life for the horde, something any member would do, and SHOULD do, by the blood oath.
Again, WoW races are not modern humans, you cant have modern society mindset and values in a fantasy system like wow
Except it was the right move, orcish forces were spread to thin to deal with the alliance invaders, he brought then back and it made the trolls actually put up a fight, seriously, and they ended up getting the island back
Except he didnt do ONLY that, are you ignoring what i said on purpose?
Garrosh literally re-build most of orgrimmar to be able to endure the hot temperature of durotar as houses often catch fire, he made sure horde was not economically dependant of trade from the alliance nations, and made sure his people were not STARVING, he took new territories to help horde expansion in those regards and brought in new allies
You are being disingenuous thinking he focused “purely” on martial might and “culling the weak”
Focusing on martial might is the BARE MINIMUM when you are facing a war of anahilation, because if you didnt notice, this was what the alliance and Varian wanted:
King Varian Wrynn says: The time has come to make things right. To disband your treacherous kingdom of murderers and thieves. Putress was the first strike. Many more will come.
King Varian Wrynn says: I’ve waited a long time for this, Thrall. For every time I was thrown into one of your damned arenas… for every time I killed a green-skinned aberration like you… I could only think of one thing.
King Varian Wrynn says: What our world could be without you and your twisted Horde… It ends now, Warchief.
King Varian Wrynn says: ATTACK! FOR STORMWIND! FOR BOLVAR! FOR THE ALLIANCE!
But hey, Varian was human and alliance, so he is morally right and justified
He didnt focus on that, he attacked once or twice and he got scolded by Thrall.
Being hot headed and ill tempered isnt a sin, is just character trait, but if its Varian who have it, its fine, again, your bias is showing. And he wasnt short sighed as his strategies made sure the horde was successful in northrend to Saurfang disbelief
The only person who started a war was Varian
Cairne literally slapped the crap out of his leader, in front of people, but something he didnt do, its bogus that people actually take HIS side
Garrosh only made to the death because he was hoping Cairne would back down and he could save face after being disrespected, but he didnt, and that was his doom
It is what the character always show to be until blizzard decided he wasnt, cope is ignoring actual canon to paint a fanfic while people worship Varian who was literally the same character until, again, blizzard decided he wasn’t.
Now that is hilarious cope and a desperate argument, you realize that “living pile of scum” wrote most of the crap in MOP that i bet you gobble all over.
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no, we play the same game, the difference is i dont have goldfish memory like you and remember the actual events and how they happened
By example, an awful amount of people think Garrosh is this crazy lunatic who started wars, when it was literally, the alliance who first declare war and were the first to attack and break the cease fire, BEFORE the cataclysm started and even BEFORE they knew Garrosh was Warchief
The chances that you did a goblin are close to zero cause you are an elf player, but if you actually did their starting zone, you know the alliance is attacking and hunting horde ships and capture Thrall to parade him like an animal in stormwind, still thinking he was the warchief… and they also attacked a neutral group(the goblins) because they were in their way
But of course, you will not see this story being remembered here, only that “garrosh was meanie and started wars” like the alliance guy above was parroting
Drek’thar in one of the books mention shamans cannot force the environment to their own desire, so they cant do anything about it, druids could help, but they have similar mentality
The goblins did help in stuff like that, and in other fields like elevators, zepelins, ships to deliver goods, but durotar is just a dry land
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So you admit it, Garrosh was bad.
Also Sygfried, Gilneas was in cata and was an act of aggression
No one liked Varian until he died and even that was almost entirely forced
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We’re not talking about the Alliance, tho. Just because they did something wrong it’s good that Garry did it too?
No he didn’t.
You’re delusional.
Varian eventually came to his senses and mellowed out. He, in universe, admitted that he was hot tempered and made mistakes. Varian is flawed, but I’m not running defense on him like he’s my actual king.
Again, the Blood Elves already had a dwindling population. It’s not about loyalty, it’s about “If we listen to this guy unquestioningly, our race could literally be wiped out.” You’re completely delusional if you think Garrosh’s demands for undying loyalty were reasonable for a warchief.
Spread too thin because he kept starting crap.
Brother you’ve brought up Varian more than I ever have. Again, Varian is flawed and has, in universe, admitted that he’s flawed. If you think Varian is so bad then, by your own admission, Garrosh is worse because he never improved. He just got angry and threw temper tantrums whenever someone said no to him.
Gilneas says otherwise. Again.
And instead of trying to be rational, Garrosh went “UNGA BUNGA STRONG = GOOD I WILL KILL THIS GUY” and if it wasn’t for Magatha he absolutely would be dead. Bear in mind, this is not me saying that he cheated on purpose, he was tricked and that falls on Magatha. But it is proof that, by Garrosh’s own rule of “Might makes right,” he would have lost. Because until he got that lucky hit with poison, Cairne was clobbering him.
Garrosh’s own ideals literally almost killed him and the only reason he’s alive is because of luck.
So Cairne should’ve just meekly submitted to Garrosh instead of challenging him? Even if Cairne was wrong about his accusation (which yeah, he was) would Garrosh really respect him more for just sheepishly backing down? Do you want his subordinates to be blindingly loyal or have some backbone? You can’t have both.
No. His doom was Magatha messing with the fighting. And again, it’s the only reason Garrosh survived.
Again, you’re delusional.
The way you have those quotes, are you insinuating Afriasabi isn’t living scum? That all of the abuse and harassment he dished out to women at the company isn’t bad? I don’t care if he wrote the damn Bible, the dude can go to hell.
I ain’t responding any more to this because it’s obvious you’re either completely insane or just trolling.
Guilneas attack happened after the war alliance and horde was already going on
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Me too. Makes me sad when I think about it.