I mean, it is kinda that bad for the Horde

Lore Story Forum
21

I think what you describe is a symptom of a larger problem - none of the factions/characters have goals outside of surviving the next world ending threat. The lack of which has caused the factions to feel monolithic and hollow, because they have nothing to strive for or against. In contrast, consider TBC, where the Blood Elves sought to feed their mana addiction, or Maiev seeking revenge against Illidan.

The goals do not need to be complex. It could simply be Talajni trying to defend troll lands in Stranglethorn Vale; Tauren preserving the land against Dwarves/Venture Co.; Jaina hunting down artifacts; Anduin/Velen fighting a secret war against the shadow in the background, etc. These could easily be done in a way that weaves in conflict between characters and factions, and yet doesn’t automatically blow up into the 5th war.

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22

I’d like to note that from a design standpoint there is absolutely no reason why Alleria is alone in this. Horde should have a void researcher/void expert on it’s payroll for just these kind of situations and it is kind of problematic that these kinds of faction imbalances happen fairly frequently.

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23

I just highlighted this because baine sitting on the floor for the entirity of SL and thrall resolving his mommy issues hardly counts as horde content

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24

Why not?

Sylvanas issues solved, horde content.
Thrall and his mom? Horde.
Helping Kael’thas? Horde.
Helping Bwomsamdi become the ultimate loa of death? Horde.
Helping vol’jin spirit and in turn him getting ready to become a loa with Rezhan’s essence? Horde.
Cleaning lordaeron from the blight that Sylvanas created allowing it to become the forsaken capital again? Horde.

And you’re free to do so.

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25

Sylvanas’s Alliance issue was solved.
Sylvanas’s Horde issues were not.

Thrall sat on the floor for the longest patch in the game’s history.
He was told to stay with Baine to defend Oribos while Jaina and Bolvar came with us to do whatever TWICE.

Listening to Thrall talk to his mom =/= Horde character taking charge and leading.

Nevermind his stupid weapon crap.

Yes.
We got three quests with Bwonsamdi.

Two quests with Vol’jin.
Malfurion went to the Shadowlands and came back.
Vol’jin is still in time out land.

Yes.
This is Horde, to a point.
After the expansion ends.

But its an Alliance quest to worship an Alliance character and put that Alliance character within a position of power to allow the Alliance to control portions of the Horde.

Her very first act as a member of the council is to help the Alliance, after all.

And she keeps it a secret that she was working with the Alliance the entire time.

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26

Ok, so there is horde content.

Glad you agree with me.

27

From a certain point of view :+1:

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28

I think what people are noticing, is that certain characters are kind of in a narrative limbo.

Thrall has spent two expansions meeting his mom.
He’s also spending two expansions now dealing with his Elemental-dysfunction.
That’s not definitive proof, but it’s heavily suggesting the writers want characters who have an internal conflict to be the stars of the show, but they can’t think of anything new for Thrall.

At this point, Blizzard could probably just put him back in Orgrimmar and let him live out the rest of his years as the Horde’s “flawed, but very loving dad” who simply weighs in on future content with all his wisdom.

I mean, Anduin is the eternal woobie who Doubts and Pouts about everything, so he’s basically a singularity of angst that any writer can tap for drama. That’s why Warcraft feels like the Anduin Show, because it’s so very easy to insert him into a plot and take his perspective as the one intended for the audience.

Alleria is just Blue Sylvanas, her main priority is her son but since we’re not putting him in danger yet she doesn’t have to worry about pissing everyone off. She may not be wearing her monster-badge on the outside, but we’re all leaning away from her and bracing because we know she’s a time-bomb and they’ll have her explode into purple tentacles and star-speckles at some point. Just not yet.

Jaina at this point might be filling in the role of Khadgar now that he’s MIA. She’s here to be headstrong and capable with magic, but not much else, honestly. We’ve seen her various attempts at love, hate, peace, and war, and there’s not much left they could surprise us with from her. I enjoy her the most but only because I remember her from Vanilla, and treasure that nostalgic version of her. Not the tired, beat down, overworked and overstressed millennial expy she’s become.

So to me, it’s not a Horde or Alliance, thing. It’s a new story vs old rehash thing. And maybe what people are seeing ahead of us is a lot of new strange locales, but also a lot of the same old characters dealing with the same old drama in a new location.

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29

Six Horde quests compared to the Alliance dominating every single portion of an expansion do not equate.

You lied.

Even now you dance around the topic because you know that you’re objectively wrong.

I can’t believe you had the nerve to bring up handling Sylvanas.

Shadowlands was the death expansion.

We got the Emerald Dream and night elves and the night song and ELUNE while saving exclusively night elven souls and having multiple plays about how the Alliance is good and powerful and the Horde is weak and evil.

Jesus wept.

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30

Just want to point out that the devs had a deadpool breaking the fourth wall moment when they used the play and Jaina fully admitting she could’ve solo killed the entire Horde at sea during the Zandalar raid, but she was good and just and decided that would be wrong.

And then the fairy chick was like “THAT SUCKS!”

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31

I said it was a faction neutral expansion and that it has horde content.

Neither are lies.

You’re also being dismissive of how much alliance content there actually is.

But there is no point in arguing, the expansion is faction neutral and it had horde content.

If thats good content, enough content, or content that makes you happy i sincerely don’t care at all.

Calling persons liars for no reason also just makes you look like a jerk.

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32

It wasn’t.
It focuses exclusively on the Alliance and the Alliance’s vendetta against Sylvanas.

Ogmotts’ dream journal doesn’t matter.
Sylvanas intentionally killing the horde, enslaving the horde, and selling their souls to Zovaal don’t matter.

Only Night Elves and Anduin matter.

SYLVANAS OBJECTIVELY DID MORE DAMAGE TO THE HORDE THAN SHE DID NIGHT ELVES.

That is a fact.

But only the Alliance and Night Elves mattered.

The Horde was not remotely involved in Sylvanas’s punishment.

And when Sylvanas became Alliance good Sylvanas she disagreed completely with everything evil Horde Sylvanas stood for. While Anduin, Jaina, Uther, Bolvar, and Shandris were involved.

While Cairne was cut out and Lor’themar never touched on Kael’thas as promised.

Tell me again this was faction neutral.

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33

A general check list of determining if content or a character actually needs to exist…

  • If you remove their lines from a dialoge does anything change?
  • Do they exist only to do one thing?
  • At any point did you forget they/it existed/happened?
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34

What horde capital filled with civillians did she wipe out again? To the point that it was officially stated in universe to be a genocide?

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I see.
You didn’t play Horde.

Orgrimmar was completely devoid of soldiers.
The Horde’s army was completely decimated.
Nathanos has to try to recruit shop keepers to defend the walls.

And LMFAO if you think the citizens of Teldrassil outnumber the Horde entire.

You’re delusional. Beyond help.

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36

Casual reminder that so many citizens of Teldrassil are saved that they flood the largest city in all of Azeroth, and source out into Elwynn forest.

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You keep throwing personal insults.

Again, it just makes you look like a jerk.

Civillians normally outnumber the military, thats just the truth of any place, and we never ever got any official info saying numbers, so, by default, killing the capital and its adjacent cities of most civillians and part of the military that was stationed there was by any reasonable metric more damage then sending soldiers to die in a war, since you know, Alliance was also losing soldiers.

But i know, you will call me a liar, and say everything i said was wrong, with no verifiable data to confirm your claims.

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It isn’t one race’s military.

It is the entire Horde’s military.

Also,

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Only darnassian citizens were saved, and a minority of them, of course they would fill the streets of stormwind since storwind didnt have any housing for them.

The fact is, the majority of night elf population died at teldrassil, how much and how many they will never know, but it was officially classified as genocide, so unless chronicles say only a few didnt escape or some BS, Teldrassil was and will ever be the biggest evil Sylvanas did.

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40

/10characters

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