I wonder where all these people are. Because I can tell you right now, they probably are playing Alliance side. It’s only been Alliance players telling us things need to change.
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I considered that being a possibility too, but then I recalled like old blizzcons where people asked about the horde being “”“savage again”“” so idk.
though don’t get me wrong: anyone who wants the horde to be evil is wrong and their opinion is automatically discarded. Thrall’s Horde is the only rendition of the Horde that matters and is cool.
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Yeah all I want is the Horde I joined. And I didn’t join it secretly hating Org or anything. Btw, I love old Org. I think it’s the best version.
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I think that’s pretty much what we all want. We want the horde we fell in love with. WC 2 was cool and all for it’s time, but it’s not the horde I signed up to play
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I’m half-and-half on Orgrimmar. The old one definitely has that nostalgic grab to it, and I think it had a kind of… rustic(?) feel to it. New Orgrimmar feels like there’s too much metal up in your face, though I could be misremembering how much the old version had.
On the other hand, I like how the current version is multi-level by letting you ascend to the bluffs.
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New Org reminds me of Garrosh basically. And the metal patches on the pathways make no sense. I could stand some metal but they went too far. It ruined the almost watercolor painting style old Org had.
The problem I have with it is aesthetic, not really layout.
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My main issue with the updated Org is the metal spikes everywhere. It’s soo gaudy looking.
People can say what they want about the old org but the architecture wasn’t as in your face. It actually felt like the hordes main capital on Kalimdor. Instead we got a updated version that screams Orc with major daddy issues and trying to compensate and I get why it doesn’t hit with some
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although ironically Old Org probably had just as many spikes, just not the very noticeable black metal.
Orcish architecture has always had a really spiky outline.
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Yeah, that’s true. The amount of black metal I suppose just makes it stand out more. Kind of funny how you barely notice certain things when you enjoy the look of something, than it gets updated and your like Oh god, that’s ugly as sin! 
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I’ve never really liked either versions of Orgrimmar. There’s just a lot of browns and reds that aren’t aesthetically appealing to me. It’s the same with the garrisons. I massively preferred the aesthetics of the Alliance garrison over Horde’s.
I know it’s a hot take but I actually prefer The Undercity. Which, let’s face it, is an opinion hardly anyone is going to agree with. I know even a lot of my friends hated it, but there’s just something about it I really liked. Also, I’m really into the vibe of what Tirisfal Glades looks like. And the Ghostlands, too, for that matter. Although I haven’t played or leveled through it again in a long time.
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Nah i loved undercity, it was perfect i have genuinly no idea how people got lost in it, just every forsaken zone has immaculate vibes
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Undercity does “gothy with mad scientists thrown in” very well. It won’t be to everybody’s taste, but for those who like it, I can see how it would really hit home.
My personal favorite Horde capital is probably Thunder Bluff.
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Autocracy is only one of a number of parts. But it IS a part of fascism. And it is true of the Horde.
It is not just the battle cry. If you have been paying attention it is a repeated theme. Horde first, everything else second. The battle cry is just one part of it. The theme repeats over and over.
I don’t see how dictatorial is ‘loaded.’ It simply means it is a central rule by one individual with complete authority. It is accurate to say that fits the Horde.
I think this might highlight a problem. You are reading subtext in that is not there. You are seeing the terms as having a meaning beyond the actual definition and putting weight on them that is not intended.
Again, not just the title. The title make an easy example to point to. The governmental structure was always VERY military. Thrall used the same structure as the WC2 Horde did when running a military invasion. The Horde has been shown to be predominantly military at the top leadership. Thrall as the Warchief, with generals under him.
It is not surprising, and it fully makes sense, given that Thrall built the Horde originally using the military structure because he was leading them in a fight to escape. And most of those following him were former soldiers and/or the family of those soldiers. And he used the structure they were familiar with, the old Horde. The difference was he was leading them on a better path. And it worked while he was in charge. But the government structure was not different.
Exactly. Unfortunately there are people that do advocate that way.
Let me be clear: I was not saying that because people asked for it that it should happen. I was pointing out that the overwhelming feedback at the time was to get ride of the Warchief position in favor of a council.
Now, from there you are free to make your own judgement as to whether that is a good choice or not. That is subjective and you are free to have your own opinions about it.
That is not completely true. The Alliance High King was only ever a military position. The various races of the Alliance are not bound to the High King like the Warchief. It did look like Blizzard was heading that way, but they pivoted from feedback and made it clear High King was not the same and would never be the same.
Though I agree democracy is not a thing for any of the races. The closest are Gnomes, but they are closer to a merit based republic. The leaders are kind of elected, though in a weird way.
That is such a weird prejudice.
That is a false statement. It can be disproven in this thread.
This I agree with. They could have cleaned it up, updated some resolutions/textures, and expanded it a bit while keeping the same character and it would have been an amazing city.
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In and of itself, however, it proves little. There are multiple ways to have one leader, and not all of them are fascistic.
I disagree with you on that, and I consider that to be an example of uncharitably stretching a point. It’s not “Horde first, everything else second” any more than it’s “Alliance first, everything else second” over on the other side. Both sides are expected to participate in defending their factions when there’s a war. But apart from that, people on both sides are free to go about their lives.
It’s loaded because it implies a particular flavor of central rule by one individual—the words “dictator” and “fascist” are very much associated, especially in the history of the twentieth century.
Leadership by soldiers also does not mean you have a miltaristic society. It doesn’t percolate down to the person on the street. I don’t see any evidence that the average shopkeeper in Orgrimmar, let alone Thunder Bluff or Silvermoon, glorifies the military. Because let’s remember, the Horde is more than orcs.
If anything, it’s the soldiers who are adapting their ways to the new society, rather than the society being molded to become one giant military unit.
On the whole, you’re looking at the whole thing through a skewed lens—possibly a faction-based lens. It looks like you’re starting with the conclusion you want and then twisting the facts so they fit your conclusion.
But you know what? I don’t feel like arguing about this right now, so I’ll make this my last post on the subject for this thread. Feel free to respond if you want, but I won’t be following up on it.
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We aren’t bound to the Warchief either. The Warchief can be overthrown and has been a few times.
It’s really no different because the people under the High King have no say in who becomes King. Warchief is decided by who challenges and wins the role.
Not all Alliance but somehow always an Alliance player.
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I like Undercity as well. I like a lot of the creepier places in Azeroth. But there was something about coming to Org the first time with the music, it’s just energizing.
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That theme kicks butt. The way it swells in a roundabout way, with the drumming in the background. You’re right, energizing, nostalgic, and awesome.
**Edit: Also, since I was talking about Undercity. I also loved that if you bring up the volume of your ambiance but lower everything else in the throne room, you hear that eerie bell ringing, and then hear that same conversation King Terenas and Arthas had right before Arthas murdered him. As if that tragedy’s ghost, itself, had become ingrained in the walls of Lordaeron.
“What are you doing, my son?”
“Succeeding you, father.”
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I love that they put that little easter egg in there from WC III.
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You always think of Sylvanas and the Forsaken as being calloused. I mean, I think it’s basically written into what they are.
Yet who built that little memorial/tomb to King Terenas in the Undercity? Like that bit with, “May the bloodied crown stay lost and forgotten.” It had to have been the Forsaken, right? Yeah, I know they’re technically still Lordaeron citizens, but I felt that little detail was cool.
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That’s an interesting theory. I bet they would!
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