I love "push" weeks

You’re a DPS. Try it as a tank hosting your own key in a pure pug group every time, where you are expected to be perfect and people will tear you to pieces at the slightest imperfection.

If I could somehow as a tank prevent people from making these repeated obvious mistakes in my group I would. Instead I stand there watching them fail a pass/fail mechanic that their repeated M+ history suggests they should easily pass most/every time.

These are the same people who go crazy if I don’t fill the group within 5 minutes, yet are the first to leave if something goes wrong, often because of them.

I’m far from a great player. My deficiencies are more in terms of throughput, like not pressing a keyboard button 10 times per second. Various dangerous things in M+ are often telegraphed and rapidly become muscle memory for me, as they should be for anyone with comparable or better M+ experience than me.

I’ll be honest. Slamming my head on this week has nearly burned me out of pug M+ tanking and it’s all I’ve done in WoW for most of BFA (after tanking + healing evenly in legion M+). This is coming from someone who considers himself quite the masochist when it comes to videogames. A less patient and sane man would have quit this pug M+ tanking lifestyle many months ago or last expansion. Unfortunately I can’t trust most pug tanks when I try to heal and playing any DPS specs put me to sleep, even though I raided progression as DPS for multiple tiers in WOD and previous expansions.

As for calling out people for ruining my key, yes I did and yes they ruined my key and I had no control over them ruining that key beyond checking them beforehand and placing trust in them to be competent. I would have opened up way more on them verbally but it seems everyone is extremely sensitive these days in game and will mass report you for the slightest issue. I believe the mass reporting and silencing system is partially or fully automated so giving anyone any ammunition to use against you will blow up in your face these days, even if they deserve it.

I know you are trying to pin these failures on me somehow but my runs in general have a 90-95% success rate at timing and I really take my time so put together a good group checking people. Also no by “good group” I don’t mean inviting people significantly higher score than me because that has blown up in my face too many times. For example I pick someone with a timed 18 siege bolstering + explosive tyrannical run. That’s not a trivial key for the average pure pug DPS player to time. I invite that person into my 19 bursting volcanic and they promptly screw most/every easy mechanic, including dying on the first round of bombs on the first boss. This same string of failures would have prevented them from even COMPLETING the much harder key they timed on their record. So what’s the deal ? The deal is that the vast majority of pure pug players this week simply do.not.care.

It was the same situation on the previous bursting + volcanic weeks in BFA. I’ve also seen threads pop up on these forums and on other forums like reddit or mmo champ over time regarding push weeks and they expressed the same thoughts. Too many players in these weeks simply let their guard down and don’t realize that even without the affixes you can still have for example a 600% multiplier on trash and a 400% multiplier on bosses. These same multipliers will still destroy you for being sloppy.

I used the last of my energy and patience last night and got lucky with some pugs timing a siege 19 and FH 20, both my keys again. These people had comparable experience to the ones who failed my previous keys multiple times this week, so thankfully they actually remembered that it’s a 19/20, and not a 0 or LFD.

I’m going to force myself to heal more in M+ for the remainder of BFA. Playing a pug tank and having a giant microscope on me ready to tear me apart for the slightest imperfection has become exhausting.

Let me break it down for you really easy.

Anyone that couldn’t surpass 2k io until season 4 is not worth inviting.

Also, maybe find a new game. You said 90-95% of your pugs time keys, yet you are here day in and day out raging about DPS or Demon Hunters (justifiable).

You either fail a ton of keys and are lying about your success rate OR you are the most miserable person on these forums.

You are going to fail keys dude. Get over it, Christ almighty. I feel like people that never could muster more than 1700io In previous seasons seem to not get this fact.

You pug? Grats, so do most of us. No voice pugging for 3.5 seasons now (missed most of season 4).

Here is another fact for you. Good players have bad runs. Period. You run enough M+ you will be the reason keys were not timed. You. In fact, I am willing to bet my account that you have been responsible for keys that failed. Keys you blamed other players for to boot.

You must not be the greatest tank if you can’t find DPS that want to run with you more often. Take some responsibility for your groups continually failing and you might improve.

This forum is full of people that are experts and haven’t hit a decent score until corruption, extra dungeons and a friendly seasonal affix carried them. A couple of them are tanks too. In fact, mostly between two tanks I see this nonsense.

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Oh boy

It passes the time while I keep groups open and try to find people not looking for a carry. I should thank the multitude of carry groups out there selling runs fostering the mentality of “why play when I can just buy it ?”. Those same players go to sites like raider IO and see the same message plastered all over like “heroic nyalotha carry start now within 15 minutes”. I also work from home so I keep these groups open while doing other stuff and checking on the forums.

No sir. I’m careful about putting together my groups and when I start them they generally have a 90-95% success chance of timing it. This past push week that was the inverse, probably 10-20%. The reason as I stated was that everyone had amnesia and thought a 19-20 key was LFD instead of a 19-20 key. I also eventually found people near the end of reset that realized a 20 key is a 20 key so paying attention and trying is probably a good idea.

Yes I pure pug virtually all of my runs because I can’t schedule my life around the availability of other players anymore.

If I (99% of the time as a tank) could humanly somehow prevent the failure of the people that killed my runs (which aren’t many as I described above) you can bet I would. Unfortunately I don’t control someone else’s character, so for example if they stand in a dangerous cone effect AFTER I position a mob properly what do you want me to do ?

There are plenty of pug DPS players out there that want to be friends with tanks, for the reason that so many of them perform poorly (hello multitude of BM hunters at ilvl 475 in perfect corruption doing 60k overall DPS) in throughput and mechanics. There I said it. Plenty of DPS want to be friends because they want to be carried more or less. Shockingly the healer friends on my list are not like that and actually pull their weight in my runs.

Of I can find people that have respect and caution for the content they are attempting to do. For example the 4 players I found a few days ago to time my KR 20 tyrannical. Not a pushover key at all for the average pure pug group and I made that clear straight up. They made very few mistakes, handful of deaths overall and we timed it by 5 minutes. None of these people were near or above 3k currently. Amazing what happens when people see “raging necrotic tyrannical” instead of “bursting volcanic fortified”.

What’s your logic behind people not being worthy post season 3?

Really starting to feel brought up in a thread I wasn’t even participating in. Probably my tank narcissism though.

Not that I particularly agree but the thinking goes that there’s 2 extra dungeons and all the sillyness of corruption making 2k much edited to attain.

I returned mid last season, never played m+ before. This season I’m off 4k by 200 io. Just because I didn’t play before shouldn’t invalidate people’s achievements. I pug a lot and lower the io of group more likely people leave.

Everyone different but let people feel they have achieved something, who it hurting?

Please, enlighten us. How does corruption and this seasons affix carry people?

He’s right that the scores are inflated due to there being 2 extra dungeons and the corruption system ultimately making you more powerful every week vs the previous seasons designs. The same thing happened in legions final season so it isn’t really a surprise. It’s infinity scaling content, so the ceiling is higher but there is still a ceiling. Also, the final season is the longest being that it’s the last, giving everyone more weeks and time to build score. We have also had 4 seasons to learn the dungeons, and become more familiar with the affixes and how they apply to each dungeon. 2k in season 1 was obviously far more impressive then 2k now but I think everyone understands that.

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Obviously score will be higher this season with the addition of Mechagon, that’s not the point.

The point is that writing this season off as not challenging because of corruption and the seasonal affix is a stab at anyone participating in high m+.

Everyone is subject to corruption and the seasonal affix, so the ceiling moves for everyone. Comparing this season with last season is not a formidable comparison. Different abilities, essences, corruption, and affixes change the way dungeons are approached. In some ways, things are easier now, in some, they were easier then.

I mean, people can say whatever they want but until you’re clearing similar or higher content then the people you flame, no one is going to take you serious, and no one cares what your score was in past seasons where things were much different.

Yea sure, it’s still difficult at the top ofcourse, it’s just the top is higher up. Nobody timed a 31 the first 3 seasons for a reason. The scaling changed. As someone who has played steadily throughout the expansion from season 1, I would say a 25 now is about as equivalent to a 21 or so in season 2 but the “io score” for the dungeons hasn’t changed. For some perspective, if you had your current score in season 1, you would be the #1 player in the world by 300 points. This season, as of this post you are #5,678. I think that’s a substantial difference. Not to take anything away from you, as we have similar scores, you are clearly in the top tier of the player base and that is something to be proud of. As rude as it sounds, he’s still right. 2k and 3k respectively are not nearly as difficult as previous seasons.

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Corruptions don’t help you press your buttons better.

I think everybody has had that scenario where somebody is completely decked out, lucky box drops and what not, only to die to one-shot mechanics and pull abysmally low numbers even when they don’t die.

Another push week come and gone. A few more observations looking at various players across the low-high 3k range in an assortments of 20-21 keys I hosted:

Siege

  • stand in every tempest on first bos
  • stand near first boss after he hits a bomb
  • ignore adds on first boss
  • stand in every “clear the deck” on second boss
  • die to cannon blast on second boss, get rezzed, die again
  • stand near fountain on third boss so no safe room to avoid wave, then everyone dies (except possibly the tank or people with immunities)
  • ignoring every demo on every platform on last boss

Shrine

  • literally no offensive dispels by anyone even after screaming in chat
  • standing in surging rush first boss when its directly pointed at you with a 10 year telegraph time

AD

  • dying multiple times to torch hall way
  • ignoring adds on priestess fight
  • running rezan in the wrong direction
  • not killing volkal totems together (this one made my eyes twitch hard)

TD

  • running away to africa on first boss so adds spawn 10 miles away
  • then hilariously stacking when the boss is underground so multiple people die to upheaval
  • zero CC/stuns/etc. when people get squeezed by crabs on the beach

Waycrest

  • healer literally does nothing on sisters fight when shadow sister is up, or it seems that way because everyone drops dead within 5 seconds
  • ignoring MC target on MC sister
  • ignoring both adds and torch on last boss

Kings Rest

  • axes on third boss are your friend, so hug them
  • quaking leap on last boss means you stand still and kill everyone

It’s like the entire pug pushing population was replaced by LFR players with complete ignorance of all boss mechanics. Just bring on shadowlands already so I can start fresh and ignore anyone with a wall of fortified scores. I literally have no idea how these people even timed the keys that are supposedly on their record with this level of play.

The only conclusion I can come to is “push week I don’t care about mechanics”.

I think this might push me to (if possible) make my own variant of the raider IO addon, or a similar functionality. This one will have a total fortified score and a total tyrannical score. Then I can not waste hours of time screening applicants with timed 20 fortified keys who failed a 15 tyrannical because “dude doing mechanics is not fun, I just wanna smash”.

One more note. Here’s a fun change to ponder for fortified weeks. If you die on a trash fight on fortified weeks, then it is treated like a boss fight. Everyone must die to release or you need a brez. Lets see how many fortified timed keys we see then.

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To be fair, this is a reasonably effective approach on Fortified weeks, where bosses are little more than fancy trash pulls.

In my opinion, Fortified weeks are fundamentally flawed. They basically make the timer more difficult just by making it take longer to burn through things. There aren’t any actual challenging pulls that could block you from completion; if you can burn through the trash, you will make it through the dungeon, unless you choose to give up.

In addition to all its other failings, M+ basically prevents you from experiencing the proper balance between trash and bosses. Every week, one or the other is trivial relative to where the balance should be.

Since when is Teem/Fort a push week? It adds nearly as much, if not more, hp to the key as tyrannical. The insistence on putting priority targets in packs that normally wouldn’t have them slows the key even further. I used this week to just learn holy in the 15s, I’ll just push this week.

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A boss on a 15 tyrannical key has significantly
Less HP and does significantly less damage then a 20 on fortified. I think we have covered this before.
I’m curious, are you using voice when you do these keys? I can’t imagine you bring this energy with you into discord. If so, I can see why you are forced to pug these things. I haven’t done a premade 20 key in months (I pug them daily) and have never experienced anything like this. Here’s some advice (not like you are looking for it, because hey, you know everything) I recommend you try and read the room early. See who’s making mistakes, not interrupting, getting hit by things ect. Take them under your wing, preferably in voice where you can relay information quickly while still playing through. Give tips to keep them alive and help
Them contribute more. Do it respectively. It’s a 5 man, group content. Be a member of the team. Nobody likes the “I told you so” guy. The Monday morning quarterback. Woulda coulda shouldas don’t time keys. Change your attitude and your score will follow suit.

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This is key, I jumped in a key with my healer, a pug priest I made friends with (4k), one of my IRL buddies (3.3k), and a pug mage (who was alsto 3.3k). We all got in discord and had a good time. We pushed a 19 to a 21, the 21 to a 23, the 23 to a 24, and the 24 into 25 ML which we missed by 1 min.

We laughed and joked the entire time. As the tank, your demeanor really makes a difference. As an experienced tank, you probably know what abilities are going to be dangerous in the next pull, start prepping the group for that. Set up marks, assign people to them, and be vocal. I usually take the first kick/stun so I can make sure things go smoothly while we get the pull going.

It’s important to remember people don’t want to make mistakes, but everyone does. Getting down on someone is only going to make it worse. On the contrary, if you mess up and the group responds with encouragement, it places everyone in a better and more positive mindset which translates into better play.

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My favorite are the bursting weeks where people try and make it the responsibility of the healer to heal through 4 stacks of it instead of DPS being smart and staggering the killing blows. Literally been in pug groups with intelligent people who stagger the kills and ones with tanks who pull 15+ things at once and everyone aoes at them at once.

4 stacks isn’t lethal. 4% health per second per stack won’t kill anyone. Provided there aren’t any slow rolling stacks, 8-9 is perfectly fine. The healer shouldn’t be the only one doing something about the affix (there are tons of magic immunities spread across a lot of classes), but killing 1 enemy at a time is foolish.

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Um, bursting is a lot higher than 4%. 4 stacks for a less experienced healer can be lethal, anything higher than 8 is most likely wipe. Particularly bad is “rolling” into higher stacks (new stack applying to old stack when they are 1 second from expiring).

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