I know this has been brought up already, but M+ Needs a revamp asap

Gameplay Dungeons, Raids and Scenarios
1

M+ is not a fun experience.

I’m not top of the top, but I am 2500+ io currently trying to pug and complete 10s with mixed success. I usually get close to title, but never have the group to actually push it so my experience is 100% from pugging/occasional guild keys.

I have not had less fun in a m+ season than now. M+ is abysmally bad. Below I will i List the Positive and negatives I have seen.

Dungeon Design:

PRO: This I am generally happy with. I like the old dungeons coming back. I like that they added mechanics to them. The design of the new dungeons is also really fun.

CON: Necrotic wake… the third boss is a nightmare. They changed it so that the damage output on the creations is INSANE and you have to either save hero, three spears and try to one phase the boss… or, if your DPS isnt up to par, you have to focus the creation down making the boss fight take forever. This needs more tuning. MUCH more tuning. Also, having some of the dot damage from adds, like in COT, do more damage than tyrannical bosses is pretty wild.

Dungeon Timer:

PRO: for most of the dungeons, I think the timer is very good.

CON: The 15 second death timer is ABYSMALLY bad. Why put this in blizzard. what purpose does it serve? This undeniably makes pugging 1000% more toxic. People leave dungeons after a few deaths because the timer is already so tight, that any dungeon with 6-7 deaths is a waste of time. People spend hours waiting to get into keys, or build their own keys up just to this level of natural toxicity hovering in every dungeon. It actually incentives you to not push your own key and just hop into someone else in case it gets ruined. Its the dumbest addition they added.

Dungeon Affixes:

PRO: They got rid of a lot of really bad weekly affixes. At level 12, affixes are gone and it’s just pure damage, allowing key pushers to avoid “push weeks” and “non push weeks”

CON: They added an affix that is 20 times worse. These balls, on a lot of bosses that add area of denial abilities (which is…a lot) are so insanely hard to collect that sometimes its just a wipe. The timing of these balls with boss abilities is just horrendous. Some examples below:

Ara-Kara - All three bosses have movement mechanics. Either webbing on the ground. entire room area denial, or a stun to prevent being pulled in.

COT - First boss has a tiny circle you have to stay in and more around to avoid frontals, debuffs, ground goop ect. Last boss has an aoe web and tons of aoe damage where just one ball goes in you are toast. Third boss has tons of ground goop.

I could list out all of the bosses, but you get the idea.

Rewards:

PRO: Hero track gear

CONS: Weekly vault, many times, does not yield very good results. and in dungeon rewards are just not as fruitful as raid.

Some fixes.

  1. Move the death timer to 12+. Those keys don’t deal with affixes and they are going to be generally always done for IO so one wipe usually kills a key regardless of death count. Don’t punish pugs that are already a chore to find and deal with, and that will most likely never get past 10/11s

  2. Give us an option to acquire currency from the vault that could be used as RNG bad luck protection. This way, if we have been waiting for a mythic Sac trinket for 6 straight weeks and taking the currency…we could have enough to buy it from a vendor. This would allow people to not feel that their effort farming keys for a week has been wasted.

  3. Revamp the ball affix to not proc during bosses.

  4. Be more aggressive in tuning. Clearly it is extreamly bad when a boss requires paladins to clear tentacles (Grim Batol last boss) or a boss that requires significant ST dps classes, 3 spears, hero to one phase otherwise it becomes a wipe…

Just my two cents.

22 Likes
2

It’s been brought up, but it’s good that it’s being brought up again, because Blizz needs to hear this loud and clear and listen.

I really hope they don’t drag their feet and wait until season 2 to fix things.

12 Likes
3

Blizz, please listen to people like this. So many people are already tired of m+ and its week 2…

9 Likes
4

it’s more of a Midnight type of revamp, really.

2 Likes
5

I came here to vent via my own post but right at the top I found yours and I could not agree more. Only a 2200+ io tank here but I am ready to pack it in for the season. These new affixes suck and clearly were not thought through or tested properly. Pugging is awful, not even worth the time cuz you know the key is gonna be bricked. Just an all around crap experience - BLIZZARD FIX YOUR GAME.

5 Likes
6

Strongly disagree. I think if they wanted to they could fix most of the issues in a week, but season 2 at minimum.

Remove Challenger’s Peril? Boom. Season improved.
Remove Tyrannical/Fortified from +10. That’s dumb, it was always dumb. Boom. Season improved.
Change the gearing system back to DF season 3. Boom, season improved. That one might be challenging to do midstream, so alright, maybe that’s a next season thing.

5 Likes
7

Yep, 2100 io healer and ready to be done with the season. Thought about pushing to 2500 but honestly this is just miserable for so many reasons that have already been said many times. I had some fun, but wow there’s just so many things wrong with M+ this season.

This content should be fun and rewarding, but it feels like a chore and it doesn’t feel rewarding at all.

6 Likes
8

remove timer? BOOM, season improved.

1 Like
9

Remove Ion? BOOM, game improved.

4 Likes
10

did it improve when Bobby left?

11

What was Bobby’s job within the dev team again?

1 Like
12

He was the executive vision of the company… excellent question.

13

He would stumble in drunk and yell at the art design team to make more sparkleponies to sell for fifty dollars each, and ask why you didn’t have to pay a dollar to attempt a mythic dungeon key.

1 Like
14

he was awesome. always putting the company’s financial wellbeing first. even when having a drink he thought about work. what a visionary!

15

This rewards careful play. As for timers being lenient - some still are and you can time it with multiple wipes.

A real affix would be better in its place but it’s not pointless.

Why have the timer at all if it’s function is only cosmetic even as high as 10?

And if people flag their groups properly, they’ll enjoy proper rewards for doing so: “completion.”

Of course, that attracts lower skilled players, but they’ll complete.

Technically, there is no penalty for leaving completion groups, but that’s something Blizzard can address.

Even with the 15 second penalty like historically, Azure Vaults (before skips were common knowledge) or Neltharus(before community latched on to chains and it became a joke) are probably harder to time.

16

1900 io healer and ready to be done with this season. Pugs are just unable to do anything that is required in m+ currently even at these low key levels.

You can tell the tank to not pull packs together and they will do it 5 seconds later, be the first to die, wipe, run back, and then they do the exact same thing and die first again.

Dps in +6 keys doing 350-400k overall, barely kick anything, pull extra mobs etc.

This season is miserable, I was at least able to get 20s done in the past but even running a +3 is miserable.

At least before the rescaling changes you could just go blast a low key for fun, that does not exist anymore, and even when it did the pugs found ways to make even an old-scaling +3 be miserable to heal.

4 Likes
17

Is there something wrong with blasting heroic dungeons?

18

Yes, a real affix would have been better, bit the timer is pointless. Dawn is the only key where you can have around 10 deaths and still time it. No other key has that. 6-8 deaths ruin a key. And with how highly tuned these keys are, one missed kick on a volly, one bad frontal, can literally ruin an hour of searching and pugging.

Anyone who thinks that is ok for casual pugging has to seriously reevaluate what they see as fun.

Let serious M+ players stay in the uber high keys. I enjoy difficulty, I always push keys, but this timer early on in the tier for pugs is just atrocious.

it’s not cosmetic? most keys are still pretty tight, especially on 10s with fort AND tyranical.

Timers have always been super critical to io pushing. They shouldn’t be this punishing for 10s. It makes any type of pugging extremely toxic and unplayable. Mainly because there are a lot of unskilled players out there.

4 Likes
19

The timer needs to be removed from M+. It is the core problem and continues to degrade normal, heroic, timewalking, M0/+2-5, and LFR. Developers should structure the mobs and layout to punish the abusive non-tank pullers with more consequences and for tanks pulling when they out-distance teammates, which puts the entire run in jeopardy resulting in a worse-than-sour frustrating experience.
M+ should reward clean efficient gameplay using a point system that would complement PvP playstyles, meaning the use of interrupts, stuns, and crowd-control abilities. The “go faster” until players start dying mindset is the most toxic, abusive, selfish, and inconsiderate playstyle for the casual and normal-level player. A MMORPG should not be designed around 1 player having control over 4 or even 24 other players.

1 Like
20
  • Revert S4 changes.
  • Get rid of affixes completely.
  • Leave Challenger’s Peril.

Removing the timer from M+ will not change any of the player created issues your describing in Normal, Heroic, and Timewalking. The zergfest dungeons have become is indicative of a drug addiction. Once you open pandora’s box on being able to do big pulls and zerg, there’s no going back. Attempting to is only going to cost Blizzard subscribers. I don’t like this personally, I prefer the old school “crawls” rather than the sprints we have today but its something we’ve been dealing with since BC and it has only grown worse long before they had M+.

This is the illusion now. There is no such thing as a timer in a 10. A 10 is M0. The current 10 is actually a +20. They can’t simultaneously keep the difficulty, cut out lower diffuculties but remove diffuclty from the remaining keys.