I hope BC is not released

I am writing this post to share my thoughts on wether BC should be released. I hope Blizzard comes out with a statement rejecting the release of BC. The reason is because this is “classic” WoW and not BC. If they release BC they might as well continue releasing every expansion thereafter up to shadowlands. We have done that before, it isn’t the point of classic.

If people want new content to play they should play shadowlands. Classic should remain as is. Like every other MMO, if the population falls Blizzard shuts it off. The players make that choice ultimately. So the argument that the servers will lose population is moot in my view. Blizzard can say when that occurs they had a vanilla server and the players rejected it.

The community wanted classic, it got classic. Leave it alone now imo.

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I’m not sure that reasoning really follows.

They can just have TBC and Classic be separate things.

Not necessarily. There’s a fairly obvious point at which WoW changed so considerably that it could hardly be considered the same game anymore. That point is well known to anyone who experienced the changes it brought:

Cataclysm. At that point, it is no longer “Classic.” While Blizzard may yet still offer Cataclysm servers to play on, the game a) had its talent system revamped for the worse, b) had its game world quite literally destroyed, and c) had its player count drop for the first time since the game’s launch.

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Well one can argue BC is 1000% different than classic. The removal of the honor system for example, they replaced it with marks and honor gathered as a currency for gear & added arena. It is also completely different.

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And one would objectively incorrect.

New world? None of the same classes and specs? All the characters from vanilla were instantly deleted and TBC was totally fresh? None of the old raids, zones, quests, or items existed in TBC?

It wasn’t anywhere near “completely” different.

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I said it could be argued. More examples is the addition of jewlcrafting & addition of outlands and 70 being the new highest level too.

The point of Classic is to make money for Blizzard, make no mistake. If Blizzard sees TBC as profitable, it will happen.

:pancakes:

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I don’t agree with that actually. They have other reasons for releasing classic and not just money. Profits are of course something a company needs to continue to exist, but I doubt the developers sole motivation in releasing classic again is for money.

For example, if you read the bug report forums they are fixing bugs alot because they care about the quality and enjoyment of the game.

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You’re right, they also want to protect their IP (get private servers shutdown).

:pancakes:

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That’s true. They do.

If they continue to increase subscription numbers by reintroducing past expansions for the next 15 years, then that would be an amazing success story (on top of the already amazing success story that WoW and WoW Classic are).

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You may be onto something here. Memes used to be simple. Relatable. Worth a chuckle. Then they evolved. New formats, new tag lines, new content that was then turned into a new meme. Then memes became increasingly meta and self reflective. They parodied themselves and the users who both made them and consumed them. They built off of one another. They grew. They morphed into something entirely novel. This progressed to the point where even that wasn’t enough. They had to become something more than themselves. They became surreal. They became deep fried and nuked. Each flavor building off of the last and transforming into a nearly intangible, unknown entity. Art progressed in a similar fashion. Started off simple, I’m talking cave drawing simple. Then some pottery and some small abstract sculptures. Subjects everyone could relate to and understand. Then, as technology allowed for the creation of cultures and societies, art began to reflect that change and it evolved along with it. By the Ancient Greeks and Romans, art had become a more advanced version of the Stone and Bronze Age arts. Better drawings, paintings, and the addition of mosaics. Sculptures eventually shifted from stylistic expression to naturalistic representation. Still accessible to everyone, yet more nuanced and complex. After the fall of Rome art stagnated and didn’t change very much for nearly a millennium. Early Christian art dominated for the most part, consisting of murals and frescos and simple statues. All of which were based on the Ancient styles. Romanesque and Gothic art also built upon these precedents. This all changed when the Renaissance attacked. A cultural explosion changed the art world forever; arguably starting with the Italian artist, Giotto. He began using techniques like foreshortening and linear perspective so that the material world could be represented as it appeared to us. A callback to the naturalistic stylings of the Greeks. Almost like a reference to the days of yore. A celebration of how art used to be, but with the explosion of new techniques and technologies, the art grew increasingly diverse. New and improved frescoes, meticulously crafted sculptures, architectural marvels and the inclusion of new materials in these works. Instead of tempera, oil was introduced along with new styles of depicting light and shadow through sfumato and chiaroscuro. These techniques and stylistic changes, while impressive, were simply an advancement of pre established art. The Renaissance paved the way for the explosion and diversification of dozens of art movements that followed. From prehistoric art to the end of the Renaissance, art was mostly about the same subjects and used similar techniques to accomplish the goal of producing a work of art. Yes, the technical proficiency exponentially improved but considering the centuries in between, few true advancements were made. Compare this to memes. They were so simple at first and really were nothing more. Then they got better. More technical. More circumstantial. More media to create them with. But memes could last years or many months before dying off. As time went on, the longevity of a meme shortened. This is paralleled in the art world. After the Renaissance the Baroque period started. Then the Neo-Classicism, Romantic, Realism, and Impressionism movements not long after. Still utilizing the same technical process but the reasoning behind the movements changed. No longer was it about simply depicting the world around us, it was about prompting the viewer to consider new thoughts and ideas. Urging them to look past the image and think deeper about meaning and context. Pushing the boundaries of what art could be. The Baroque to Impressionism era spanned roughly 300 years. Compare that to the thousands of years between archaic art and the Renaissance. It was a huge explosion of self expression. Finally, in the mid to late 19th century starting with Post-Impressionism, Modern art emerged. This movement focused on self-consciousness, self-reference, introspection, existentialism, and even nihilism. I’m talking Fauvism, Cubism, Futurism, Dada, Abstract Expressionism, and Surrealism to name the most well known. These styles changed what art could be. They were no longer about depicting life as is, or layering a painting with hidden motifs for only the privileged to understand, they were in and of themselves absurd. Abstract shapes, aggressive lines and colors, nonsensical dreamscapes. But it didn’t stop there. Post-modernism. Pushing art to the limit of its potential. Pop art, Conceptual art, Minimalism, Fluxus, Installation art, Lowbrow art, Performance art, Digital art, Earth art. These movements are about skepticism, irony, rejecting grand narratives and reason and instead embracing the idea that knowledge and truth are the result of social, historical, and political discourse and subsequently are a subjective, social construct. It’s irreverent and self-referential. It’s avant-garde pushed to 11. But what’s next? Post-postmodernism? Metamodernism? Hypermodernity? Who knows? Only time will tell. This is where memes are headed. They started off slow but have picked up so much momentum they’re evolving at an exponential pace. They used to hang around for a couple years at most. Then it turned to months. Then maybe only one month. Suddenly it was a week tops. While some particularly great memes do still stick around much like the masterpieces of art in the past, new memes are created every day, every few hours. New movements of memes are being created all the time. Anti-memes. Dank memes. Abstract memes. Wholesome memes. Surreal memes. Deep fried memes. Nuked memes. Even black hole memes, time travel, and dimensional memes are now a reality. What’s going to happen next? A return to the classics? A new format so brilliant it steals all our hearts and then starts a whole new movement? I’m excited for the future of memes

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Once again no one knows how many who said they wanted classic meant they wanted classic and nothing more. Or how many meant they wanted classic as a first step to the expansion they liked more and what they actually wanted. But we know there were some, like me, who said they wanted classic but hoped for the trilogy and who liked BC the most and liked wrath better than Classic.

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And more examples of things that didn’t change:
The attack table, boss avoidance values, armor’s damage reduction calculation, the types of stats available, combo points, energy, rage, mana for hunters, blessings from paladins, spec-specific buffs and debuffs, Balance being bad at DPS…

You’re dreamin. Get it.

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You cant make that argument in any manner. I doubt you could get passed 200%

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No. Classic is not the point. How many people are gonna say “ReLEaSe uP TO REtAiL”. No one wants that. I think most people would prefer they stop at WotLK. No one wants to play all the way through to shadowlands.

Why do you think Classic won’t remain as it is? There will always be classic servers. They will exist for people like you to play on. Blizzard is a business. They like to make money. TBC will make them a lot of money. Actually, it will prevent them from losing a lot of money due to people quitting classic.

Like every other MMO, if the population falls Blizzard shuts it off.

J. Allen Brack has expressly stated that they will not shut classic off even if only 10s of people are playing it. The real reason is to combat pservers. You will always have your precious classic.

The community wanted classic. We got Classic. Now the community wants TBC. Sorry you don’t but the rest of us do. You’ll have your server for the very few like who to play on.

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I wanted to read that wall of text… I really did… I just couldn’t bring myself to do it. I’m sure it was hilarious and well though out.

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I couldn’t agree more with this sentiment. I’m probably one of the biggest advocates of keeping our 60s in vanilla land, or giving us the option to do so. I plan on continuing to play my characters in phase 6 vanilla long after TBC releases.

However, there’s no reason we can’t have vanilla forever as well as TBC. They’re not mutually exclusive.

There’s a pretty clear dividing line after WotLK as Cataclysm destroyed vanilla Azeroth. Vanilla, TBC and WotLK are the Classic trilogy and I’m pretty confident they’ll do those 3 versions and then stop.

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Heresey! Heathen!

They are more similar than any other 2 expansions for WoW actually.

The differences do exist, but the core concept of the game play is actually very similar to early Vanilla over what “Classic WoW” is.

Sure if you like how Classic is tuned, then TBC is gonna feel a bit slow, and kinda laden with slowness, but frankly its far closer to 1.0 than 1.12 is in terms of how things play in PVE and PVP for that matter.

The only trouble with TBC is that Resilience PVP sets kinda mess up certain specs for PVP, but overall the experience is better because its closer to 1.0 than “Classic” is.

Differences:

  1. Secondary stats are not % base any more, instead “Rating” or component of % instead.
  2. More secondary stat options than “Vanilla”
  3. More base abilities for the classes and expanded talent options.
  4. World questing (leveling is more refined)
  5. Dungeons used while leveling such as ramparts are also used at 70 because “Heroics” are amazing!

Similarities to 1.0 “Vanilla”

  1. Slower pace of PVE game play.
  2. Stats like MP5 and Spirit actually matter again.
  3. Soaking damage by DPS in PVE is not a practical move.
  4. Pace of PVP is similar to 1.0 (not exactly the same obviously)
  5. Heroic and even leveling dungeons when done at the correct level / intended item level require a modicum of coordination and cannot (for the most part) be ZugZug’d like 1.12.

Conclusion,

TBC is basically 1.0 (Early Vanilla) just with way more end game content, and I mean WAY more end game content than Vanilla and actually ships with and has more end game content than many other expansions.

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