In open world constantly resets mobs
In dungeons we can no longer use it to avoid mechanics
In dungeons it actually breaks certain mechanics, think cleaning beam on Ink of Ozumat
Seriously, this whole stealth burst window crap on Outlaw should be removed, it’s horrible.
Thats mostly kitted for pvp business, you would want the multi ambush build for pve side.
You use it for Crackshot.
Incorrect. Like OP stated it’s used to get crack shot windows off
don’t need to use in open world. Opener is enough to kill everything.
If key is high enough where vanish is needed to survive then save it
Don’t use vanish when the beams on you?
Vanish had always been a semi/major dps CD in the past, for all 3 specs.
It’s kind of clunky to just have to wait to use BTE until there’s a Shadowdance charge. Also, what’s with it being literally impossible to stun anyone? Everyone just instantly breaks out of stuns always and it completely wastes stun cooldowns.
The Shadowdance window is also perfectly timed so that a stun/cc will cause you to lose the window of opportunity to deal damage, so the trinket for manually breaking stuns is literally part of the PvP DPS rotation.
You’re hurting yourself by playing outlaw in pvp
It certainly makes things slog a lot longer than needed because I can’t use a core ability that’s designed to be part of my rotation.
Which is a massive DPS loss.
Well duh, but again, this shouldn’t be the case. A spec (or class) shouldn’t have to use a defensive ability offensively.
It hasn’t been for outlaw, not until recently.
Yeah, crackshot should just remove the CD on BtE when you enter your stealth/dance, it would make the spec a lot smoother. I’m seriously gnarling my teeth when I press BtE a split second too late, or when it has a mini lag spike for whatever reason, and then my BtE goes on CD and my entire rotation is screwed. Less CDR, less energy, massive DPS loss for millisecond precision… It’s a bad oversight.
This rework stinks of not having enough time.
this is not true. During shadowlands outlaw played with legendaries that interacted with vanish such as shadowdust or master assassin, which for outlaw is more potent due to having vanish cdr. Vanish also had an interaction with count the odds anima power, which makes RTB buff super consistent. Vanish was an integral part of the rotation.
same thing in legion, vanish was a major cd with master assassin legendary.
vanish was less impactful in BFA, but it was used in opener for consistent combo points, due to ambush being more efficient than sinister strike.
Even combat rogue before legion, vanish was used to cast ambush which was a gain to use.
Again even if saving vanish was a dps loss, on really high keys, especially on certain bosses, you would still save vanish to cheese a leap or fixate mechanic because not taking that huge damage is worth the dps loss
The reason I really like crackshot is it rewards you for playing it properly.
I didn’t play outlaw in SL and I consider that recently.
It was pretty much not used offensively in BfA
Every finisher spent is averaging about 6cd of CDR. Every time you use a finisher with Vanish on cooldown is a massive waste. With the current rate of spending CP that’s easily several usages in a (boss) fight, which translates into a huge damage loss. Now if crackshot was that powerful, I would agree with you. The problem is that crackshot actually isn’t all that strong. Keeping vanish defensively puts you behind other DPSers, rather than put you at equal.
Need to spam crackshot just to keep up with other DPS while having to control a cockpit, it’s not rewarding, it’s running with extra weights.
FWIW, on open world mobs or elites, I’ve found that if you wait for a cast time ability or channel of some kind (where the mob stops autoing), you can safely vanish > BtE without it resetting as long as the cast doesnt finish. Its not 100% effective but I’ve managed to get it pretty consistent when soloing rares. Its certainly a more annoying quirk of the new outlaw.
? Outlaw is pretty good in pvp right now. All 3 rogue specs are actually.
Well with gear all three specs are fine.
But a lot of times people try to use PVE rotations in PVP and are surprised to find out that isn’t how it is done!
What a horrible opinion, outlaw is 100% fine in PvP.
Normally I’d say “it’s all good unless your planning on playing in a tournament” but I don’t even know if that statement is required because it looks like it may well be viable for that too.
Outlaw used vanished mechanics on bfa and legion. This isn’t new or “destroying the fantasy”
In BfA you didn’t have to do it unless you wanted 1 extra combo point every once in a while. It had no real benefits. Right now it’s granting a crackshot window which is a ton of extra damage directly, and indirectly through a massive CDR.
The difference being vanish mechanics pushing you over the benchmark, not bringing you to it.
I agree with the OP, I don’t like the Shadow Dance/Vanish to use the BtE spec to do decent damage. They should have created a spec to let us play like a Combat Rogue, at least have an option to play like a melee DPS.
It just doeasn’t feel right and I’m missing my old spec prior to this rework.
Any spec that does not include shadow dance is trash damages vs so many other specs.
So yes, OP nails it.
Very sad that not many ppl points it out.
its still melee…you still bte in melee otherwise the crackshot dispatch wont connect. Nothing in this rework makes you play in ranged and its nowhere near how hunter plays lol.
Outside crackshot windows youre still playing the regular rotation.
Actually funnily enough, if you are in range to BtE, it will also cast the dispatch during crackshot even if you are well beyond melee range. With a few FtH saved you can have almost full ranged crackshot windows if a mechanic interupts you and get full value from those BtE. Its quite nice.